Category:American female comics artists
Pages in category "American female comics artists"
The following 56 pages are in this category, out of 56 total. This list may not reflect recent changes (learn more).
The following 56 pages are in this category, out of 56 total. This list may not reflect recent changes (learn more).
1. Gladys Parker – Gladys Parker was an American cartoonist for comic strips and a fashion designer in Hollywood. She is best known as the creator of the comic strip Mopsy, Parker was one of the few female cartoonists working between the 1930s and 1950s. Growing up in North Tonawanda, New York, Parker took dance lessons at the age of seven after winning a most beautiful child contest. She taught herself to draw while recuperating from a leg injury, often using herself as her model, after graduating from Tonawanda High School, she worked in the office of a lumber yard, and then ran a dressmaking shop from her home. She was the daughter of Caroline and Wilbert C. Parker of Tonawanda and her maternal grandparents were John and Anna Gerster of Tonawanda. At the age of 18, Parker arrived in Manhattan to study fashion illustration and she started her newspaper career with the New York Graphic, doing a comic strip called May and Junie. She moved on to United Features for two years and Newspaper Enterprise Association for seven years, after drawing the flapper strip Gay and Her Gang in 1928-29, she took over Ethel Hays Flapper Fanny Says panel, which she did for NEA from 1930 to 1936. She also did a strip series for Lux Soap during the 1930s. Developing Mopsy in 1939, Parker modeled the character on herself, in 1946, she recalled, I got the idea for Mopsy when the cartoonist Rube Goldberg said my hair looked like a mop. That was several years ago, and she has been my main interest ever since, the Mopsy Sunday strip, added in 1945, gave Parker an opportunity to draw her fashion creations in a sidebar feature of paper dolls, titled Mopsy Modes. Mopsy held such wartime jobs as a nurse and a munitions-plant worker, after World War II ended, Mopsy was fired from her defense job in 1947 and went back to civilian life. By the end of the 1940s, Mopsy was published in 300 newspapers, in 1947, Mopsy began in St. John Publications Pageant of Comics #1. Two years later, St. John gave her a title of her own, charlton Comics reprinted several of those comic books in 1951. In 1955, Berkley Books published a Mopsy paperback collection, St. John also ran Mopsy as filler pages in its romance comics. Under the name Gladys Parker Designs, her line was sold in stores as early as 1934. Parker also designed for films, such as her 1940 white sharkskin suit worn by actress Louise Platt, living in Hollywood with her two black cats, Parker also wrote a daily column, Dear Gals and Guys, during the 1960s. Living in New York during the 1940s, Parker was married to illustrator Benjamin Stookie Allen, Parker was a member of the Society of Illustrators and the National Cartoonists Society. When she retired in 1965, Mopsy retired with her and she was 56 when she died of lung cancer in 1966
2. Nina Paley – Nina Paley is an American cartoonist, animator and free culture activist. She directed the feature film Sita Sings the Blues. She was the artist and often the writer of comic strips Ninas Adventures and Fluff, Paley was born in Urbana, Illinois, the daughter of Jean and Hiram Paley. Her father was a professor at the University of Illinois and was mayor of Urbana. Her first animation was made when she was 13, it was recorded on Super-8 reels and her first animation as an adult was the short story Follow your Bliss. Her second clay animation, I Heart My Cat, was shot on a Krasnogorsk camera and these two, along with Cancer, were found on VHS with the description NINA PALEY DEMO REEL1998. In 2012, Paley decided to publish them under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license, in 1988, Paley moved to Santa Cruz, California, and began to write and draw the strip Ninas Adventures. In 1991, she moved to San Francisco, in 1995, she began to draw the more mainstream Fluff, a comic strip about a cat, which enjoyed a modest success in syndication. In 1998, she began to experiment with animation. In 1999, she made the worlds first cameraless IMAX film, Pandorama, in 70 mm form, it also ran for about a year as a short feature at Berlin Cinestar and has been shown at IMAX theaters elsewhere. A humorous short cartoon based on a variety of optical illusions. She then embarked on a series based on a controversial subject. The centerpiece of the series was The Stork, in which the environment is bombed to destruction by storks dropping bundled babies. The film is an expression of the conflict between increasing human population and the ecosystem in which it must live. The 3½ minute film was a success at festivals and resulted in an invitation to Sundance in 2003. In this time she also drew comic strips for VHEMT which remain on the VHEMT website today. Early in 2010 Paley started drawing a new comic strip called Mimi & Eunice. She is distributing it on the web using a copyleft license, in 2013, Paley created an animation on Vimeo depicting the Middle East conflicts over history, it was named a Staff Pick
3. Melinda Gebbie – Melinda Gebbie was born in San Francisco. She became interested in comics in 1973, when she met writer/artist Lee Marrs at a publishers fair, Gebbie began her career as a fine artist. She contributed her first comic strip to Wimmens Comix #3, the seminal all-women anthology published by Last Gasp and she wrote and drew short stories for Wimmens Comix and many other anthologies, including Tits & Clits Comix, Wet Satin, and Anarchy Comics. In 1977 she completed her own book, Fresca Zizis. In 1984 she moved to England to work on the film adaptation of Raymond Briggs When the Wind Blows. Following this, she worked in a variety of illustration and office jobs and continued making short stories for such as Strip AIDS. The verdict was that all the comics should be confiscated and burned, Fresca Zizis was made illegal to possess in the UK. Moore wrote the story, the story was finished in 2006. Meanwhile, she and Moore created Cobweb, a heroine who appeared in twelve issues of the Moore-written anthology Tomorrow Stories between 1999 and 2002. Gebbie was briefly married to California poet Adam Cornford in 1984 and their relationship inspired Cornfords poetry collection Animations. Gebbie married Alan Moore on 12 May 2007. com, June 6,2006 Melinda Gebbie Interview at ReadySteadyBook, September 11,2006
4. Jessica Abel – Abel was born in 1969 in Chicago, Illinois, and raised in the Chicago metropolitan area. She graduated from Evanston Township High School and she attended Carleton College for in 1987–88, and then transferred to the University of Chicago, where she published her first comics work in 1988, in the student anthology Breakdown. Additionally, she worked for three years in the administration at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and she graduated with a BA degree. This was the first professionally printed Artbabe, and was subtitled The Four Seasons and she appeared as a character in the back-cover story of Hate #10 by Peter Bagge. Abel has stated that her major work Artbabe is not autobiographical, with the publication of the Xeric issue of Artbabe, Abel came to the attention of Fantagraphics publisher Gary Groth, who offered to publish Artbabe. Each issue of Artbabe contained one or more stories, Abel did not begin any longer sequential work until La Perdida in 2000. The character Artbabe, who appears on cover, does not actually appear in any of the stories. In 1998, Abel moved to Mexico City with her boyfriend, now husband and she went on hiatus from Artbabe in 1999. From 1996–2005, Abel did a series of one-page journalistic comics for the University of Chicago Magazine, and also embarked on Radio and this book depicted how an episode of the show is made, with behind-the-scenes reportage and a how-to guide to creating a radio show at home. After two years in Mexico City, Abel moved to Brooklyn, New York, Abel created the five-issue, 250-page series La Perdida. Published by Fantagraphics Books between 2000 and 2005 as a five-part mini-series, Abel revised the text for its compilation and publication in 2006 as a hardcover volume by Pantheon Books. The book has received a critical response. The central character is a Mexican-American woman, Carla, raised by her Anglo mother, Abel taught an undergraduate cartooning courses at the School of Visual Arts for a number of years, and gave workshops at other locations, such as Ox-Bow Summer School of Art. In 2008, Abel and Madden produced Drawing Words and Writing Pictures for First Second Books, the book is a product of the years Abel and Madden have spent as teachers, and is a comprehensive manual on creating comics. That same year, Abel also collaborated on Life Sucks, written with Gabe Soria, Abel and Madden produced a second comics teaching textbook together called Mastering Comics, a sequel to Drawing Words and Writing Pictures, published in May 2012. Abel and Madden then both moved to France for a one-year artists’ residency at La Maison des Auteurs in Angoulême in 2012, that became an extended 4-year stay. In June 7,2016 Abel announced that she is returning to the US, to accept a position as chair of the illustration department at PAFA. Able has recently affirmed during an interview on Swedish TV with her partner Matt Madden and Fredrik Strömberg that she, and her work is implicitly feminist, but not explicitly political
5. Lynda Barry – Lynda Barry is an American cartoonist, author, and teacher. Barry is best known for her comic strip Ernie Pooks Comeek. She garnered attention with her 1988 illustrated novel The Good Times are Killing Me and her second illustrated novel, Cruddy, first appeared in 1999. Three years later she published One, a graphic novel she terms autobiofictionalography. In July 2016, she was inducted into the Eisner Hall of Fame and she is currently an Assistant Professor of Interdisciplinary Creativity at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Linda Jean Barry, who changed her first name to Lynda at age 12, was born on Highway 14 in Richland Center and her father was a meat-cutter of Irish and Norwegian descent, and her mother, a hospital housekeeper, was of Irish and Filipino descent. Barry grew up in Seattle, Washington in an African-American neighborhood and her parents divorced when she was 12. By age 16, she was working nights as a janitor at a Seattle hospital while still attending high school, neither of Barrys parents attended her graduation. At The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, Barry met fellow cartoonist Matt Groening. ”These were the cartoons Groening, after graduating from Evergreen, Barry moved to Seattle. When she was 23, the Chicago Reader picked up her comic strip and she later moved to Chicago, Illinois. As she described her career start, Bob Roth called me from the Chicago Reader as the result of an article Matt wrote about hip West Coast artists — he threw me in just because he was a buddy, right. Called and wanted to see my comic strips, and I didnt have any originals, I didn’t know anything about originals, that you don’t give them to newspapers because newspapers lose them. So I had to draw a set that night and Federal Express them. So I did, and he started printing them, and he paid $80 a week, and because he’s with this newspaper association, the other papers started picking it up. Got into the Los Angeles Reader, for a long time the Los Angeles Reader wouldnt print me, and the Chicago Reader wouldn’t print Matt even though they’re sister publications. So we both worked on the publishers and the editors to get each other in and it was really funny, when we got into each others’ papers, everything sort of took off for both of us. Collections of her work include Girls & Boys, Big Ideas, Everything in the World, The Fun House, Down the Street, in 1984, she released a coloring book with brief text called Naked Ladies. She also wrote and drew a full-page color strip examining the everyday pathology of relationships for Esquire magazine, in 1989 Barrys strip appeared weekly in more than 50 publications, mostly alternative newspapers in large cities
6. Alison Bechdel – Alison Bechdel is an American cartoonist. She is a 2014 recipient of the MacArthur Genius Award and she is also known for the Bechdel test. Alison J. Bechdel was born in Lock Haven, Pennsylvania and her father, an army veteran who was stationed in West Germany, was a high school English teacher full-time and operated a funeral home part-time. Her mother was an actress and teacher, both of her parents contributed to her career as a cartoonist. She has two brothers, Bruce Christian Bechdel II and John Bechdel, a player who has worked with many bands including Fear Factory, Ministry. She left high school a year early to attend Simons Rock College from 1977–1979, Bechdel eventually transferred to Oberlin College, graduating with a degree in studio arts and art history in 1981. Bechdel moved to Manhattan and applied to art schools but was rejected and worked in a number of office jobs in the publishing industry. She began Dykes to Watch Out For as a single drawing labeled Marianne, dissatisfied with the morning brew, Dykes to Watch Out For, an acquaintance recommended she send her work to WomaNews, a feminist newspaper, which published her first work in its June 1983 issue. Bechdel gradually moved from her early drawings to multi-paneled strips. Dykes to Watch Out For began this process, developing into a series of posters and postcards, after a year, other outlets began running the strip. In the first years, Dykes to Watch Out For consisted of unconnected strips without a regular cast or serialized storyline, however, its structure eventually evolved into a focus on following a set group of lesbian characters. In 1986, Firebrand Books published a collection of the strips to date, in 1987, Bechdel introduced her regular characters, Mo and her friends, while living in St. Paul, Minnesota. Dykes to Watch Out For is the origin of the Bechdel test, in 1988, she began a short-lived page-length strip about the staff of a queer newspaper, titled Servants to the Cause, for The Advocate. Bechdel has also written and drawn autobiographical strips and has done illustrations for magazines and websites and she became a full-time cartoonist in 1990 and later moved near Burlington, Vermont. She currently resides in Bolton, Vermont, in November 2006, Bechdel was invited to sit on the Usage Panel of the American Heritage Dictionary. Stonewall Book Awards – Israel Fishman Non-Fiction Award in 2007, the Bill Whitehead Award for Lifetime Achievement from Publishing Triangle in 2012. The International Forum for Psychoanalytic Education Distinguished Educator Award in 2013 Lambda Board of Trustees Award for Excellence in Literature in 2014, the Erikson Institute Prize for Excellence in Mental Health Media in 2015. For her outstanding contributions to the art form, Comics Alliance listed Bechdel as one of twelve women cartoonists deserving of lifetime achievement recognition
7. Nell Brinkley – Nell Brinkley was an American illustrator and comic artist who was sometimes referred to as the Queen of Comics during her nearly four-decade career working with New York newspapers and magazines. She was the creator of the iconic Brinkley Girl, a character who appeared in her comics and became a popular symbol in songs, films. Nell Brinkley was born in Denver, Colorado, in 1886 and she was not formally trained in the arts, and dropped out of high school to follow her natural talent with pen and ink. As a tot, she drew place-setting illustrations of knobby-kneed kiddies for Mary Elitchs garden parties at Elitch Gardens, at the age of 16, she was already accomplished at illustration. She illustrated the cover and 25 illustrations for a 1906 childrens book, Wally Wish. She was hired to do drawings for The Denver Post. Her skills were noticed in 1907 by media mogul William Randolph Hearst, though barely into her twenties, she was convinced to move from Denver to Brooklyn, New York, with her mother. She began working in downtown Manhattan with the Journal, where she produced large detailed illustrations with commentary almost daily, the newspapers circulation boomed, her artwork was featured in the magazine section. Brinkley later moved to New Rochelle, New York, a known artist colony. She soon became known for her breezy and entertaining creations. The curly-haired everyday working-girl drawings were known as the Brinkley Girl, the Ziegfeld Follies used the Brinkley Girl as a theme, and three popular songs were written about her. Bloomingdales department store featured a Nell Brinkley Day with advertisements using many of her drawings, women emulated the hairstyles in the cartoons and purchased Nell Brinkley Hair Curlers for ten cents a card. Young girls saved her drawings, colored them and pasted them in scrapbooks, the Denver Press Club greeted her when she vacationed in Colorado in the summer of 1908. Nell was most famous for her representing relationships between boy and girl—man and woman—Bettys and Billies and her illustrations used the drawing of Dan Cupid to represent the presence of that something most people call love. Brinkleys reputation was established by an early assignment to cover the sensational murder trial of Harry K. Thaw. She was assigned many interviews with the actress-wife, Evelyn Nesbit, in later years, she covered other infamous murder trials. She produced numerous courtroom illustrations printed in the Evening Journal and other Hearst newspapers, Nell flew with Glen Martin in his new biplane and reported the daring swoopings and the landing for her readers. Nell helped with War Bond drives, and she entertained and consoled those at home and she traveled to Washington, D. C. where she interviewed many young ladies who had left their homes to become defense workers
8. M. K. Brown – M. K. Brown is a cartoonist and painter whose work has appeared in many publications, including National Lampoon, Mother Jones, Wimmens Comix, The New Yorker, Playboy and more. She has written books, created animations for The Tracey Ullman Show. She is also a painter with work in galleries and many private collections. She was married to fellow cartoonist B and her animated series Dr. N. Godatu debuted in 1987 on The Tracey Ullman Show alternating with the then unknown Simpsons shorts. Nancy Cartwright and Dan Castellaneta from The Simpsons provided voices, Nancy Cartwright in Freeway, there were six shorts in all, each divided into four Acts. There were also two unreleased episodes,2 Blind Date, Dr. N. godatu has a dream date with a lawyer whos also a surgeon, and, in college, was voted cutest couple, unfortunately, hes also someone who likes to talk about himself too much. 4 Freeway, Dr. N. godatu is going shopping with her friend Pat,7 Fishtank, Dr. N. godatus fish are doing strange things, which is nothing compared to what the two balloon-like repairmen are doing trying to fix it. 9 The Dream, Dr. N. Godatu has a strange dream -,13 Scanner, Dr. N. Godatu breaks out a scanner that converts brain activity into a TV picture. The Party, Pats throwing a party, hes back and he means business. Character list, Dr. Janice N. Godatu Elaine Mr. Marsh Bill Wallhead Pat The Carlisles Michelle M. K. Brown contributed various strips to National Lampoon magazine, Aunt Marys Kitchen featuring regularly from the early 70s into the early 80s, in 1983 Collier Books published the Aunt Marys Kitchen cookbook of 140 recipes gathered by M. K. Brown. Character list, Aunt Mary Leo Dorothy Dr. K, porker, Social Worker, - January 1975 Aunt Marys -12 panel Full COLOR spread. - August 1980 Aunt Marys - August 1980, Aunt Mary had the strangest dream last night, Aunt Marys - September 1980, Aunt Mary decides to have a slide show. Aunt Marys - October 1980, Aunt Mary looks for pictures for the slide show, Aunt Marys - November 1980, Leo tries to fix the Popcorn machine. Aunt Marys - December 1980, Leo goes to the emergency room, Aunt Marys - May 1981, You know what they say about Fig Bars. Aunt Marys - June 1981, Leo has escaped from the hospital, Aunt Marys - August 1981, Can I have just ONE bite of your hamburger. Aunt Marys Slide Show -11 panel Full COLOR spread, Brown as one of her early influences, By the time I graduated from high school I knew about bitter and sweet, but thanks to cartoonists like M. K. Brown, Gahan Wilson, and Ed Subitzky I also knew about weird and rare and these three cartoonists taught me to watch the people around me and listen to how they talk and to write down what they say
9. Sally Cruikshank – Sally Cruikshank was born in Chatham, New Jersey, the daughter of parents Rose and Ernest. Her parents were both Southerners, with her father, an accountant who worked in nearby New York City, New York, holding a Phi Beta Kappa key from Duke University, in North Carolina. Ernests mother had been the president of the school formerly known as St. Marys College in that state. Cruikshank has a brother, and had a sister, Carol and their maternal aunt, Bea, was a painter from the 1910s to the 1940s, whose work included a portrait commission by US President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. At the urging of a classmate there, Warner Wada, she began considering adapting her drawing style to animation, returning to Smith for her senior year and obtaining the primer Animation by Preston Blair, Cruikshank, with additional research, arranged for a special-studies class in animation. With an animation stand consisting of a Bolex camera attached to a photo enlarger, constructed by instructor David Batchelder, she produced her first animated short, Cruikshank, describing her anthropomorphic characters, said, My ducks are based on the ducks from Carl Barks comics. But I guess they got twisted in memory, because people dont seem to see similarity between them. Encouraged by the response of Ducky, Cruikshank, after graduation, enrolled at the San Francisco Art Institute, in San Francisco, California, to study filmmaking. Under instructor Larry Jordan, she made the animated short Fun on Mars, which utilized watercolor, crayon markers on paper, cutouts. Produced for $100, it featured early versions of her trademark duck-creatures. Her next short, Chow Fun, created with a $400 grant secured in association with PBS, mixed paper animation, E. Gregg Snazelle, who gave her a job a week later to experiment in animation and do TV commercials when there was work. By the end of summer 1972, Cruikshank was head animator there, in 2009, she recalled of her time with Snazelle, The job was to experiment with animation, and do commercials for him when the jobs came in. He also hoped Id figure out how to solve 3-d without glasses, needless to say I didnt solve 3-d. I didnt even do very many commercials over ten years, but I showed up at 8,30, took an hour off for lunch, I was paid $350 a month, and I could live on that then. He encouraged me generously without ever paying much attention to me and it spoiled me for any job after that. I made all my Quasi films while I was working at Snazelle, at Snazelle, Cruikshank began developing her best-known work, Quasi at the Quackadero, working titles of which included I Walked with a Duck, Hold That Quasi, and Quasi Quacks Up. The 10-minute, 35mm short, with 100 watercolor backgrounds and approximately 5,000 cels, Cruikshank independently financed the $6,000 budget, which went primarily for cel painting, sound recording and lab and camera work. Underground cartoonist Kim Deitch, then Cruikshanks boyfriend, did much of the inking, using dip pen and rapidograph, with Kathryn Lenihan doing most of the cel painting
10. Grace Drayton – Grace Drayton was an illustrator of childrens books, fashion pages, and magazine covers. She created the Campbell Soup Kids and she is considered to be one of the first and most successful American female cartoonists. Drayton attended Drexel Institute and the Philadelphia School of Design for Women, while at PSDW, she was a student of the American artist and teacher Robert Henri from 1893-94. Drayton began her career as a freelance artist in 1895, in 1900 she created two series for The Philadelphia Press called Bobby Blake and Dolly Drake. From 1905–1909, she was a member of The Plastic Club and she created the Campbell Soup Kids which was used in advertisements for Campbells Soup beginning in 1904. The Campbell Soup Kids and Draytons other children characters were drawn in a cute cherubic style often with round faces, plump bodies, and rosy cheeks. In collaboration with her sister, Margaret G. Hays, Drayton published The Adventures of Dolly Drake, Bobby Blake in Storyland, Drayton designed the popular Dolly Dingle Paper Dolls which appeared in the womens magazine Pictorial Review. She also created syndicated newspaper strips such as Toodles, Pussy Pumpkins, Dolly Dimples. Drayton was the first woman to be a cartoonist for Hearst, the Pussycat Princess was started in 1935. After Draytons death in 1936, the strip was continued by Ruth Carroll, the Campbell Soup Kids were an iconic staple of Campbells Soup advertising strategy for decades. The Campbell Soup Kids drawings and memorabila remain popular with antique collectors and it is possible that Draytons work had some influence on Japanese Shōjo manga in the late 1930s. Draytons Dolly Dingle dolls are part of the The Joseph Downs Collection at the Winterthur Museum, Garden, some of her work is also part of the collection at The Cartoon Museum. Drayton was born in 1877 in Philadelphia and her father, George Gebbie, was an art publisher. In 1900 she married Theodore Wiederseim, in 1911, she divorced Wiederseim and married William Drayton, and started signing her work as Grace Drayton. Grace Drayton, a Childrens Illustrator Who also Painted Young Women -- A Biographical Sketch, worldCat search Grace Drayton, Wiederseim Grace G. Drayton at Library of Congress Authorities, with 8 catalog records
11. Marty Links – Marty Links was an American cartoonist best known for her syndicated comic strip Emmy Lou. Links in Oakland, California, she moved with her family to San Francisco, in 1940, she arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle where she drew for the Womens World department. These kids look more like bobby-soxers, the reaction gave her the idea for a cartoon character, and in 1944, she launched her comic strip Bobby Sox about a teenager named Mimi. It was distributed by Consolidated News Features, the Chronicle described Mimi as a precocious sub-deb with a flair for trouble. By 1946, Marty Links had drawn over 600 cartoons for the Chronicle, in the meantime, she had married Alexander Arguello, her high school sweetheart. He was a descendant of Jose Dario Arguello, a Spanish army officer who was commandant of the Presidio of San Francisco, joses son was Luis Arguello, also commandant of the Presidio and a governor of California in the Mexican era. Arguello Boulevard in San Francisco and Point Arguello on the Southern California coast are named for the family, Alexander Arguello died in 1966 after the couple had been married for 25 years. So, apparently, was the National Cartoonists Society, of which she was one of the first female members, correspondence from the Society was addressed to Mr. Marty Links even after shed given birth to her first child. She offered to them her bust size. Like most slang describing teenagers, Bobby Sox was destined eventually to sound quaint, in 1951, when the term was still a couple of years away from the dustbin of history, Links renamed the feature after its star, Emmy Lou. Unencumbered by obsolescent expressions, she and her boyfriend, Alvin, Links had three children, and her daughters served as models for Emmy Lou. In 1954, Links lived at 215 32nd Avenue in San Francisco, in 1957, she described her working methods, When I first started with the syndicate, I drew only daily panels. After we sold to a few papers, they asked for a Sunday page and this was impossible to handle alone, so Jerry Bundsen and Ted Martine came into my life. Jerry, who works for The San Francisco Examiner with Herb Caen, once a week, he sends me a large batch of gags from which I select what I want and like. If there arent enough to make up a week, I fill out with my own ideas—which drives Jerry mad and he claims if he sent me 60 gags I would be unable psychologically to select more than four out of the bunch. After selecting the four best gags, I pencil in the week of dailies. These go to Ted Martine, the worlds best artist and he inks in all the pencilled backgrounds. When they are returned I ink in the figures, I have pencilled them in rough enough so that I change as I go along