Talk:Creationism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
Many of these questions arise on frequently on the talk page concerning Creationism.

Information.svg To view an explanation to the answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

FAQ notes and references:

Former good articleCreationism was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 22, 2006Good article nomineeListed
September 29, 2006Good article reassessmentDelisted
Current status: Delisted good article
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Creationism:

  • Add section on the differences/similarities/conflict between Intelligent Design and Creationism.
  • Add section on the beliefs creationists have on what the mainstream fields of science have to say on the origins of life and the universe.
Priority 2
Arbitration Committee Decisions on Pseudoscience

The Arbitration Committee has issued several principles which may be helpful to editors of this and other articles when dealing with subjects and categories related to "pseudoscience".

Principles
Four groups

IMPORTANT - If you wish to discuss or debate the validity of creationism please do so at talk.origins or Debatepedia. This "Discussion" page is only for discussion on how to improve the Wikipedia article. Any attempts at trolling, using this page as a soapbox, or making personal attacks may be deleted at any time.

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2018[edit]

the correct way of writing pseudolinguistics is pseudo linguistics TheSbGamerWiki (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. As far as I can tell, it can be hyphenated or not, but it is not two separate words. If you find a reliable source and reopen this request, please phrase it in a "change x to y" form, as directed. RivertorchFIREWATER 15:12, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

"Humans" vs. "Mankind"[edit]

Can we get a discussion going? For me, I plain like "humans" better, without considering if "mankind" is gender-neutral or not. For me, mankind is a) old-fashioned and b) has connotations beyond humans as biological animals. Is there a positive reason for "mankind"? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:07, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I prefer 'humans' for similar reasons - it's a better word to use here. Since making the revert I've seen that there is a conversation going on over at WP:MOS about this - apparently KindOfHuman has been changing 'mankind' to 'humankind' all over Wikipedia, and Madruss has been going round reverting them all. On this page, in this context, I feel that 'humans' is a better word to use.Girth Summit (talk) 15:14, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
No objection to a local change provided it isn't based on the baseless MOS:GNL rationale (or the essay WP:GENDER). The larger-scope discussion can be found at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Updating "Mankind", where I have requested a community consensus before any further widespread changes of the word "mankind". I'm not the only strong opponent, by the way. ―Mandruss  15:19, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for being unusually (not for you, for the average Wikipedia editor) rational about this article! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:36, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Humans seems obviously preferable here for the rationale given by Stephan Schulz. Doug Weller talk 15:46, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I prefer "humanity" over "humans" and certainly over "mankind", depending on the context. I think "mankind" can be a misogynist term. Thinker78 (talk) 19:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Merriam-Webster definition of "mankind"[edit]

Merriam-Webster also has a definition of "mankind" that actually refers only to men.[1] Thinker78 (talk) 19:08, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint Thinker78, but this isn't the place for that conversation - there's no impetus to return to 'mankind' here, we're good to stick with humans (or humanity, although personally I prefer humans for this page). This page is just for improving this article - the discussion of whether mankind is an appropriate word to use is happening over at the WP:MOS talk page.Girth Summit (talk) 20:59, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
I disagree with you, I think you didn't see the context. An editor posted in an edit summary in this article's page about Merriam-Webster, so this is relevant to this page specifically, that's why I posted it here. Thinker78 (talk) 21:10, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
Apologies - I'd forgotten about that. That was Mandruss - he's already accepted that 'humans' is a better word to use here; hopefully it's settled now, but I can see why you mentioned it.Girth Summit (talk) 21:27, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

King James Version?[edit]

Why does this article use the King James version of the Bible? KJV is not an authentic translation from the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts. It was directed by King James to make Christianity compatible with his non-Christian lifestyle (for example in the deliberate misinterpretation of baptism to make it compatible with the fact that King James was never properly baptized by immersion). The English Standard Version is a more authentic and recent translation based on newer information and is designed to remain true to the original languages of the Bible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.115.235.85 (talk) 10:58, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

That post is full of claims that demand reliable, independent sources. HiLo48 (talk) 11:01, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
I assume you mean Genesis 1:1–2 and the like. Probably because the editors who inserted them thought it was a good idea/good as any. If you want to exchange them for New Revised Standard Version or whatever (see Template:Bibleverse), you can WP:BOLDLY do so. If someone reverts you, discuss per Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.
If anyone knows a policy/guideline/etc for bibleverses, that could be helpful. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:18, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Where does this article use the Jim VI & I version? Looks like a false premise – there are references to other versions or glosses on the Bible; YEC refers to the Ussher chronology which postdates Jim by 25 years, OEC refers to the Scofield Reference Bible which expands on Jim's version. Both are specifically relevant to the topic. The #Religious views section implies reference to earlier versions, as used by the Church Fathers. . . dave souza, talk 16:56, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
"This version of creationism relies on a particular interpretation of Genesis 1:1–2." may be the only place, but at least once. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:21, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Ah, a missing link! That explains it – if you click on the link it get you, not James VI and I's s:Bible (King James Version, 1611)/Genesis, but s:Bible (King James)/Genesis of 1769, much modified by Benjamin Blayney, so in terms of monarchs it's actually the George III of the United Kingdom version (think that chap had some influence on colonials across the pond). Spot the difference: the KGIII version has a wee addition top right starting with "Year before the common Year of CHRIST 4004" – the classic YEC chronology as introduced by the Ussher chronology 25 years after Jim VI & ! had pegged it. . . . dave souza, talk 18:52, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

For what its worth, our article on the King James Version does give information on some royal biases and interference in this translation. "Instructions were given to the translators that were intended to limit the Puritan influence on this new translation. The Bishop of London added a qualification that the translators would add no marginal notes (which had been an issue in the Geneva Bible). King James cited two passages in the Geneva translation where he found the marginal notes offensive to the principles of divinely ordained royal supremacy : Exodus 1:19, where the Geneva Bible notes had commended the example of civil disobedience to the Egyptian Pharaoh showed by the Hebrew midwives, and also II Chronicles 15:16, where the Geneva Bible had criticized King Asa for not having executed his idolatrous 'mother', Queen Maachah (Maachah had actually been Asa's grandmother, but James considered the Geneva Bible reference as sanctioning the execution of his own mother Mary, Queen of Scots). Further, the King gave the translators instructions designed to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology of the Church of England. Certain Greek and Hebrew words were to be translated in a manner that reflected the traditional usage of the church. For example, old ecclesiastical words such as the word "church" were to be retained and not to be translated as "congregation".The new translation would reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and traditional beliefs about ordained clergy."

As for the source texts used, the translators of the Old Testament mostly used the Hebrew Rabbinic Bible of Daniel Bomberg as a guide, with some modifications to conform to the Septuagint and the Vulgate. They consulted both the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint. Dimadick (talk) 14:54, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

As discussed above, the crucial reason for referring to the greatly modified s:Bible (King James)/Genesis of 1769 was that it added "Year before the common Year of CHRIST 4004" and each chapter showed the Ussher chronology which wasn't in the original s:Bible (King James Version, 1611)/Genesis, and doesn't appear in newer translations. See s:Talk:Bible (King James) for discussion of how the [[Benjamin Blayney[[ edition became, by the 19th century, the standard Bible text for English-speaking Protestants whether inside or outside the Anglican tradition. . . . . dave souza, talk 19:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Extent of note[edit]

According to WikiPedia, Creation Science has branched "worldwide", and therefore the note that "Creation science refers to the pseudoscientific movement in the United States" should be truncated (i.e. remove "in the United States") in order to be more accurate.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.73.98.161 (talk) 14:31, 31 July 2018‎ (UTC)

No. Learn to sign your posts. -Roxy, the dog. barcus 14:34, 31 July 2018 (UTC)