Talk:George Washington

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Good articleGeorge Washington has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day...Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 2, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
June 21, 2006Good article nomineeListed
June 28, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
December 10, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
February 3, 2008Featured article candidateNot promoted
June 19, 2009Good article reassessmentDelisted
July 2, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
September 13, 2010Good article nomineeNot listed
June 6, 2011Good article nomineeListed
January 26, 2012Peer reviewReviewed
June 24, 2018Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 11, 2018Featured article candidateNot promoted
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 30, 2004, April 30, 2005, April 30, 2006, April 30, 2008, April 30, 2009, April 30, 2010, and April 30, 2015.
Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive This article was on the Article Collaboration and Improvement Drive for the week of August 27, 2006.
Current status: Good article


Dubious tag in Slavery Section[edit]

Historian James Flexner maintains that Washington's attitudes toward his slaves were patriarchal, paternal, and commercial, but lacked empathy for their plight; however, he disliked separating slave families and would not separate them without their consent.

I've tagged this sentence as dubious for two reasons:

  1. It conflates two different separations. One is permanent separation by sale, which many sources do indeed confirm Washington disliked. However, in the slaves' living arrangements Washington "showed no concern for keeping families together day by day, he routinely separated husbands from wives and fathers from children" by accomodating them on different farms and in doing so "institutionalized an indifference to the stability of slave families." (Wiencek pp. 122–123);
  2. The idea that separations were subject to the slaves' consent is at best WP:UNDUE; only Flexner's general work is provided as a source, while none of the dedicated works on Washington and slavery used to source the article, by Kenneth Morgan, Philip Morgan, Henry Wiencek, Peter Hirschfeld or Dorothy Twohig, state that separations were subject to slave consent. At worst, the idea is a misuse of a WP:PRIMARY source; I don't have access to Flexner, but I believe he is quoting a letter from Lund Washington concerning a specific incident, not drawing a general conclusion about the sale of slaves written in his own voice. Factotem (talk) 09:58, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

The disputed sentence has been changed with this edit to read:

Historian James Flexner maintains that Washington's attitudes toward his slaves were patriarchal, paternal, commercial, and lacking empathy for their plight but, also, he did not separate families without their consent.

...and the disputed tag removed. Sorry, but the same issues identified above still exist. Wiencek specifically uses the word "separated" when speaking of Washington's indifference to family stability by splitting up families across different farms, and the questionable idea of consent is still present. I've left the edit, but restored the tag. Factotem (talk) 19:41, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Proposed wording: "Although Washington demonstrated great concern that slave families should not be permanently separated by sale or purchase, he was indifferent to their day to day living arrangements, and husbands were routinely accommodated on farms separately from their wives and children." This wording, or similar, would more accurately capture what the sources say about the separation of families and remove the idea of consent. Factotem (talk) 19:48, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
I believe it was Morgan 2000 that said this, not Flexner. Why is Flexner getting the credit ? Families were seperated at Mount Vernon. Washington did not want to seperate families outside of Mount Vernon. We don't know what Washington liked; that is speculation. He would say he disliked slavery then he would buy a slave; that is saying one thing and doing another. We can't figure out Washington. Neither should the article. Cmguy777 (talk) 05:05, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2019[edit]

The facts have to be correctly altered. For example the vise president. I care about people being able to access the history without wondering if it is true or not. LukeLuke2019 (talk) 16:06, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Favonian (talk) 16:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)