Talk:Italy

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The Italian republic has NO official language![edit]

The Italian republic has NO official language, as the U.S.. It is not written anywhere in the Italian constitution - as it was for Rome as capita till october 2010. We should change the status of Italian in the following way: official language: none; de-facto: Italian, language minorities (German, French, Sicilian, Friulian, etc...) are "protected" by the Italian constitution. 71.95.63.155 (talk) 12:26, 07 July 2017 (UTC)

hi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.44.5.118 (talk) 05:49, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Picture of the "Ferrari".[edit]

Since always on the Page "Italy" there was the Ferrari as a representation of the Italian economy section, I think there is no reason to cancel it, since other countries like Germany and the UK have" National imagines" that are not "Volskwagen", etc. --LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

As already elucidated on the talk page of LuigiPortaro29 there are several reasons why the image of the Fiat vehicle fits more adequately in the section than the Ferrari. I also like to mention the fact that LuigiPortaro29 claims i "WITHOUT even know about Italy" and i were not the right to edit on this article. I still want an explanation, actually rather an apology for that statement. Now to the aspects regarding the image. First of all, the image used in this section needs to portray the Italian economy, if possible, in a general and broad perspective, before the image of the Milano skyline were used by me, there was an image of Ferrero Rocher candies. Obviously, the Milano skyline fits much better in the section as it is portraying the Italian service and financial sector, the car image, as obvious, portrays the Italian industry, in this case the huge automotive sector. Now FCA the owning company of Fiat is still mostly owned by Italian shareholders, hence it is no problem to take an image of that. Fiat and its subsidiaries have the multiple amount of employees in Italy and generate way more money than Ferrari does, the influence is significantly higher than from Ferrari. The argument brought by Luigi was that in other country articles comparable car images were used in the economy section, that is not true, A Mercedes as used till now in the section in Germany's article is a mere luxury vehicle but no sports car as Ferrari is. Also the influence and key figures of Mercedes Benz are substantially bigger than of Ferrari- (emplyees, sales, etc.). Same goes for the Jaguar car used in the UK article economy section. Jaguar is a luxury car vehicle producer, comparable to automobile manufacturers like Chrysler, Audi or Lexus, these are different cagetories. Eventually after recent edits now there also already is an image of a Ferrari car in the sports section. Even if one would not take the before mentioned points into account, it should be clear that two images of cars of one and the same company are one too much for one single article of a country. --Joobo (talk) 08:08, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Not Consensus. I Thank you for your desire to update the page of Italy, But.."Who" are you for say " this Car is Important or no", instead to be always here adding and deleting pics in the section of Italy without consensus, I suggest you to put an eye in other Pages of the G7 Countries as for Example in the German section , there a nice Mercedes , Mercedes isn't the National Brand of Germany, "Volskwagen" Have this role for Germany's Industry, as well in the section of the UK economy there a "Jaguar", UK have no even an own Car Industry , UK lives more from" financial", it is true that there Italian brands as Maserati or Alfa Romeo Giulia that are more in the range of those pics of Germany and UK , But the Ferrari's imagine have been in the Italian section of Economy for many "Years". did you add an imagine of the Ferrari F1, Waiting to cancel the other Ferrari image? oh nice! But this don't change nothing. so, If I think as YOU Think, then the pics of Mercedes and Jaguar need to be delete it Because they are NOT "Important" for the National Economy like "Volskwagen" do for Germany! or ... ( I don't know for the UK). LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 13:58, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Not only do I still got no apology from you for your recent statements about me; you even continue your way of speaking and insinuate i did an edit in this article in order to justify another edit, albeit i never did the edit in the first place. Though this is not the place for such discussions, since you initiated this and do continue with that, i let you know that i am going to get an admin involved in this most likely. Concerning your points about the image- I personaly got no problem with changing the Mercedes image in the article of Germany with a VW image, however this is not what this is all about. My points are basically outlined above. --Joobo (talk) 21:33, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
I wonder what are you talking about? , I told you "you are not impartial", just focusing at the Italian page, if you wanted to do a good job, then you needed to started 1 week ago deleting the other pictures from Germany and the UK Since according to YOUR own theory, they are not vital to their economies.( Im not talking about only of Germany). Anyway, I apologize "again" for my expression of "impartiality". and I already I did too on my Talk Page . you always add and deletes pictures to the pages of so many countries, then I wonder why you have not deleted the other images of other countries, focusing all your attention only on Italy. why you don´t have focusing your attention in other G7 countries?. However Ferrari is the most knowling and Famous Car of the "Made in Italy" of the world. from Frank Sinatra to Chris Evans, all the world knows of it.,I still suggest you to leave all the photos of the economy section of Italy, Germany and UK as they are, there may be German and British users who may not like your photos because these photos have been here for a long time here.--LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 19:50, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
So you make an unproven insinuation without any evidence, claiming i would be impartial for whatever reason. Before that you told me i would have no knowledge about Italy. And now you apologize in the same text? Frankly, i have no idea what this is about, yet it surely can pretty much be viewed as a personal attack. I do not need to delete the images on the UK or Germany page since the cars depicted there are only luxury vehicles. Ferrari does not produce these cars, it produces high end upscale sports cars. Again i already wrote that down. There is a difference between a Ferrari and a Mercedes. Simple as that, as there is no argument by you, and merely deflection with regards to other country articles that use images portraying automobiles that do not fall into the same category, plus attacks on me, i am going to include the image of the Ferrari back in. I again hint to the fact that, now in this article there already is an image of a Ferrari car, two Ferrari cars are not needed in this article. --Joobo (talk) 13:43, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Not consensus. you say : "I do not need to delete the images on the UK or Germany page since the cars depicted there are only luxury vehicles." - OMG ! so I wonder what we have talked about? , You have added the pic of the Fiat 500 saying that is the National brand and Important brand for the Italian economy ! so I tell you now, Volkswagen do this Job for Germany and Jaguar dont have this role in the UK's economy . since your OWN theory says that. so..the Imagine of the Ferrari have BEEN always HERE , so there no reason for delete it. , You added the Ferrari F1 image without an agreement and waiting for cancel the other Ferrari image?, The image of Ferrari is the best of Made in Italy in the world! Instead of erasing the image of Ferrari why you not erase images in the sections of Germany and the united kingdom? as they are irrelevant for the National economy, how can be Jaguar Important for the economy of the the UK economy? C'mon ! Important thing : don't add imagine without consensus.--LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 16:46, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
I did not included the image of the Ferrari into the sports section, when will you finally GET IT? For how long do you use wikipedia that you still are you not even able to check the edit history to see who did what? You believe i have bad intend in editing this article, eventhough i just have the best intend for this article, I like Italy a lot and know much about it, that is also why i improved many other images, almost entirely only taking the best ones rated as "quality" "valued" or "featured" by the wikicommons community. How you come to the simple conclusion i would not be impartial here or even would not know anything etc. is absolutely unclear to me and is nothing but astounding. Your point of "always been here" is no argument at all. Something can be somewhere forever only cause nobody edits it does not mean it is the best choice or correct, that is absoutely not how an encyclopedia works. "The image of Ferrari is the best of Made in Italy in the world!" Who says that? what kind of advertising is this? Wikipedia is no magazine or something but a pure website for dull information. Images should merely highlight the information. Just taking a Ferrari image cause it is the "best, greates, expensive whatever". is not the way to edit. I have no problem actually with having the Ferrari image in the sports section, eventhough i did not inclueded it there to me it fits ok. Still in the ecnoomy the Fiat image which was also rated as a very good image categorized as a quality image and featured at the same time. Also as i pointed out i have no problem with changing the Mercedes with a VW image, so if you want to do that go ahead, though this is another topic and this should not the way it works. Also Mercedes generates way more money than Ferrari does. Ferrari might be also very iconic, but if it comes to the numbers it still is sort of small, hence not really representative. Joobo (talk) 17:11, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
I do not know, but I have the impression that You have added that image of the F1, and now you are saying something else but ...

I believe that you add and delete images with good faith, but since you have deleted the image of Ferrari saying "that does not fit to represent" the economy of Italy, I wish that you explain me what means that? and I'm not here to follow your game .. You see.. Ferrari is the best brand in Italy and the best known in the world ,you are free to google and you will find abundantly about this term , you always say that Ferrari can not compete with the Mercedes, but the fact is that you say that the Fiat is more representative, but why you not follow your own law with the other pages in the G7 countries? (since you are the only one that care of this" term But only for the Italian section"). Here does not center if Ferrari is better and costs more than a Mercedes , here we are talking about your own word of "representation", so if we follow what you say then the Jaguar of the United Kingdom and the Mercedes of Germany need to be delete it, without any "but" and I wish that you to do it, as you hold So much to the word "representation", but since you are pro Britain, I think that you will not do it! or am I wrong? haha, why, you have this term of representation only with Italy? .But since I'm still waiting if you are really impartial, and I have doubt about it, since you today also have again focusing your attention in the Italian's economy section.. and about the imagine of F1 I prefer the other "old" pic that one that always have been here. that is why I have delete that new pic of the F1 added by the unknown.LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 18:27, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

You do not have to follow my "game", because there simply is no game. I explained that meticulously already before. Ferrari is an iconic high end car brand from Italy, no doubts on that, but you have to look what gets included where. In this case one aims to use images highlighting the Italian economy as a "whole". And as iconic, unqiue and important Ferrari or other comparable brands and companies might be, they still merely portray a minor segment of the Italian economy. FIAT instead stands for an iconic, decades old uniquely Italian company, which today after the union with Chrysler, belongs to one of the biggest and largest automobile manufacturers of the world. To take an image, which by the way was rated as Quality and Featured in Wikicommons, of an iconic Fiat 500 makes hence more sense. Again to mention Ferrari as an example of a prime company in the text of the Economy section, i got no objections to that at all. Also i have no problem with including the Ferrari image in the sports section, but in the economy section the image of an automobile of Fiat is more logical. I took out the image of the Ferrero pralines and included the Milano skyline for the exact same reason. Ferrero might be a big and iconic brand, but the skyline of Milano simply portrays the Italian service sector way better. You ask the same qustion again, why i do not follow the law with other pages, it simply is not right. Mercedes is "only" a luxurly vehicle producer, yet they produce all kinds of vehicles also for the average person. Ferrari is a highly specialized high end sports car manufacturer with way less employees and far less sales and income as Mercedes, it seems that you believe I was not impartial merely by the fact that i change an image in Italy and not on other country sites. That is not correct. I already told you that i for instance deleted an image of a car in the economy section of Croatia, for the exact same reason, the car image used there simply was not representative. You seem to believe that Wikipedia is a competition, and that it is about who gets the best country article here, that is not the case. Please understand what WP stands for. Possibly a Rfc etc. is necessary. Joobo (talk) 10:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
Since your word of "representation" brings you to only look at Italy, then I also speak according to your own theory. Ha ha, you're still saying that Ferrari is not Fit and Mercedes is only a luxury car , still you don't have answer my question about your "representation" , the JAGUAR IS the UK flag company? what is Jaguar? MINI have more representation or no? Jaguar isn't even in the top three of luxury cars ! ( so in the UK's economy section there only a Propaganda) There are more than 100 arguments to show that Ferrari represents Italy And even google has demonstrated it to you . unlike Jaguar that isn't a Flag brand, as well Tata Motors have the control over this car or no?. and Mercedes isn't the National brand of Germany, Volskwagen have this role for Germany's economy. what do you think about this? or is only my invention?,You write thousand words and do not answer what we are talking about ... we still talking about this but you still talking like a Broken disc. you have adding the imagine of the Fiat 500( by the way.. that pic was an old model) saying that is the National Brand of Italy!, don't try to say that Mercedes and Jaguar are only luxury cars, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?... for Italy you say" National brand" and for the other @@@!, Volskwagen do this role for Germany and Financial is the National brand of the economy of the UK. why you don't understand it..ins't so hard to understand it. I see that you are the only one that have Problems with this photo. I found the Pic of the Ferrari good and also Fit for the Italian economy section Because "I and other users agree with this pic" This kind of picture has always been here (that means that in so many who have agreed with this image ) then you come with your own theory of "representation" and wants to change it without agreement.LuigiPortaro29 (talk) 15:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
I don't know why this user like that his ideas are accepted and the ideas from others no, that is not a good way to use Wikipedia Thanks to God that finally he is blocked!.Ivankazz (talk) 12:04, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

RfC about the photo in the economy section[edit]

(non-admin closure) - Consensus is to use the Fiat photo.- MrX 14:02, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the Photo of this Ferrari File:2017-03-07_Geneva_Motor_Show_1175_(cropped).JPG with the image text of "The new Ferrari 812. Italy maintains a large automotive industry, and is the world's seventh exporter of goods."; or this Fiat File:Fiat_500_in_Emilia-Romagna.jpg with the image text of "A Fiat 500 by one of the worlds largest auto makers FCA." be used for the economy section?--Joobo (talk) 10:16, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

PS: Relevant discussion was already started by two editors in section above and can be helpful for this RfC.10:16, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

  • Fiat - due to given reasons of adequacy, representativeness and pertinent frame as to be seen in discussion above.--Joobo (talk) 13:41, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Ferrari - No need to be more representativeness. luxury cars like Jaguar, Mercedes or Ferrari has been used in the economy's section of Italy and other countries without been representative. this Ferrari Grand tourer is similar with the Jaguar XKR ( the cousin of Jaguar XE ).--Ivankazz (talk) 08:12, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
In case you are refering to the automobile examples of the other editor, I have to point out again, that Ferrari is a particular Sports car, not comparable with the Mercedes-Benz brand or the Jaguary brand which are "mere" upscale cars. Ferrari plays in the same league as for instance, the Corvette, not Mercedes, Jaguary or Cadillac. There is a difference.--Joobo (talk) 10:32, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
That is your belief and is respectable. This Ferrari of the Photo is not a Supercar is a Grand Tourer, similar to the Jaguar XKR (the cousin of Jaguar XE). and after read the discussion above about the "representativeness" that you claim and reading your reply here on RFC I think this is merely an own problem with you and with the pic of the Ferrari.--Ivankazz (talk) 08:12, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
  • Fiat I would say this wee car, on no preference, but you see them all over the shop now, and it is quite an attractive wee motor. It was Fiat after all which bought the car, to the common people. scope_creep (talk) 11:58, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Fiat, as more economically and historically significant.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  18:06, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Magistrato Monetario[edit]

plan 23.65 % 4.032 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.254.243.155 (talk) 06:31, 22 September 2017 (UTC)