Template talk:French consorts

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

I believe the template should include only plain names (i.e. no royal titles). First of all, we can only give those titles to a handful of women without risking inventing a title (Princess of Burgundy? of Aquitaine? of Hungary? of Savoy? of Brittany? etc) I doubt that the titles "Princess of England" and "Princess of France" existed in the 15th and the 16th century; did they? I also don't see why we should refer to Marie Antoinette as Maria Antonia. Marie Antoinette would most likely be the first person a reader would look for when browsing this template and they would be very surprised not to see that name in the template. Surtsicna (talk) 18:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I only do it as it would have been their style prior to marriage, to me that makes sense! Maria Theresa of Austria (her correct name not of Spain, but thats a different issue) for example was an Archduchess of Austria etc! I am merely copying what other templates relating to other consort templates for consistency! These women did have lives before their married life came along lol Monsieur le Duc LouisPhilippeCharles (talk) 00:02, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Maria Theresa of Spain was also an Infanta of Spain. That title was by no means less significant than the Austrian title - her being daughter of the Spanish king is what brought the Spanish crowns to the House of Bourbon. Anyway, that's not so important and you haven't addressed my other points. We simply can't invent titles for the early queens and having the later queens listed with pre-marital titles makes the template a bit awkward, but if you insist on using pre-marital titles for the consorts of Bourbon monarchs, go ahead - as long as we don't invent titles. Surtsicna (talk) 10:34, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Maria Theresa was always known as Marie Thérèse d'Autriche (of Austria)! Yes she was an Infanta of Spain but she was also an Infanta of Portugal! As a male line descendant of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor she had she "surname" of Austria like her aunt Anne of Austria. Also, I fail to see how I am inventing styles for these females!? As I have said, I am merely following whta other consort templates do! I do think however should we use these styled of Infanta/princess etc then we should use them for Navarre and France as well as using Archduchess as Marie Antoinette, though much more famous than Elisabeth of Austria was still an Archduchess of Austria as that was what they were both known as prior to marriage, if that makes sense Monsieur le Duc LouisPhilippeCharles (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Why on Earth should this Wikipedia care how French language sources call her? Anyway, calling her Maria Theresa of Austria is a minor issue. A much bigger problem is this:
  1. Princess Adelaide of Aquitaine (invented title)
  2. Princess Berthe of Burgundy (invented title + unused name)
  3. Princess Eleanor of Aquitaine (invented and certainly wrong title, for she was a Duchess of Aquitaine)
  4. Princess Ingeborg of Denmark (most likely an invented title)
  5. Princess Margaret of Burgundy (invented title)
  6. Princess Clementia of Hungary (invented title)
  7. Princess Jeanne of Burgundy (invented title)
  8. Princess Maria of Luxembourg (invented title)
  9. Jeanne d'Auvergne (French; why wouldn't it be "of Auvergne"?)
  10. Princess Charlotte of Savoy (invented title)
  11. Princess Anne of Brittany (invented and certainly wrong title, for she was a Duchess of Brittany)
  12. Princess Jeanne of France (most likely an invented title)
  13. Princess Mary of England (invented title)
  14. Princess Claude of France (most likely an invented title)

...and more. "Also, I fail to see how I am inventing styles for these females!?" Simply, I am quite sure that those women were never, never called "princess X of Y". Were they? Surtsicna (talk) 14:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh my! Princesses of France (whatever dynasty) were called X de France, there were also Infanta's of various countries which I am sure you are aware is not exactly uncommon. The Jeanne's were French women who lived breathed and died in France therefore it should be blindly obvious that their names should be in French just like d'Auvergne. Princesses of Savoy is like Lorraine (another one of your silly issues), Princesses of England have been in existance since there was a monarchy in my home country...! I am loosing patience to be honest Monsieur le Duc LouisPhilippeCharles (talk) 15:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Of course they were called "X de France" in French and "X of France" in English. Who said they weren't? I said that they were not called "Princess X of France". The medieval Jeanne's spelled their name Jehanne so it is by no means blindly obvious that we should spell it Jeanne just because it's spelled that way today, it should only be spelled "Jeanne" if English language sources call them "Jeanne" and due to that only. Now, if d'Auvergne should not be of Auvergne because the Countess of Auvergne (or Countess d'Auvergne?!) was French, then surely Anne of Austria should be listed as Ana de Austria, Clemence of Hungary should be listed as Magyarországi Klemencia, Elisabeth of Austria should be listed as Elisabeth von Österreich, etc. Daughters of English monarchs were not normally styled princesses until the reign of Charles I;[1] they were princesses just like Henry VIII was a prince in 1536[2] but were not styled "Princess X of England". Silly claims are serious (not silly) issues. Surtsicna (talk) 16:40, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Now you are being silly, French names yes! German, Austrian and Hungarian is just being childish and you know it! And before you say it, I am not being rude I am just trying to sort this out Monsieur
Monsieur le Duc LouisPhilippeCharles (talk) 18:09, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Being childlish?! Their being German, Austrian and Hungarian is less important than some Jehanne's being French? Is the ethnicity/nationality of a Jehanne is less important than the ethnicity/nationality of an Ana? Or do French names simply sound cuter? Surtsicna (talk) 22:09, 23 July 2010 (UTC)