Template talk:Top sixteen professional snooker players

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Flag icons[edit]

What is the reasoning for using flagicons in this template. This is an individual sport and players don't represent their country. I intend to remove them.Mo ainm (talk) 10:51, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

To represent the "Sports country" of the players. Armbrust Talk Contribs 13:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
What is the sports country, is it the country they have represented in International competition? Do theses players represent their country and if so in what events? Mo ainm (talk) 14:23, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Yes. In professional competition (like the Masters, the China Open and the World Championship.) Armbrust Talk Contribs 14:45, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
So they are representing England, Scotland etc, and not as an individual? Mo ainm (talk) 15:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
The flags are used in the same sense as in tournament brackets. If they doesn't represent their country, then why should tournament brackets inlcude flags? Armbrust Talk Contribs 15:18, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
They are either playing as individuals or they are representing their country, which is it? Mo ainm (talk) 15:23, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

───────────────This is the notation generally used by the media. See [1] as an example. The BBC always uses this notation too when their tournaments are staged. The usage is verifiable through third party sources, so there is no reason to alter it here. Betty Logan (talk) 15:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

So what is the relevance of the flags, it appears they are being used to show the birth place of the players which is against WP:FLAGBIO. If they don't represent their country then they don't get a flag. Mo ainm (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
WP:FLAGBIO stipulates that flags shouldn't be used for birth and death locations, which has no bearing on this issue since that isn't what they are being used for. They are a visual identifier for the countries the players represent, and are used in the same context that they are used within the sport (see [2]). Betty Logan (talk) 20:40, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
When has any of theses people played in a tournament representing their respected countries? Could you show me were for example England played Wales in an international snooker competition? As I said if no such competion exist then the flag icons are being used solely based on the place of birth of the player. Mo ainm (talk) 20:48, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
See this: World Cup (snooker). Armbrust Talk Contribs 08:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
An event that hasn't be played in almost a decade and only 3 of the top sixteen players have competed in. So again could you show me a reliable source that the rest of the players have represented their country in an International event. If none provided then it is original research to place a flag beside their name. Mo ainm (talk) 09:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
And which point of WP:OR should the use of flags violate?. Armbrust Talk Contribs
Because just because someone is born somewhere doesn't make them a national of that country, how many sportsmen were born in one country and represent another? So by using their birthplace it is OR, unless a source is provided to say they play for that country we are making an assumption based solely on their birthplace. Mo ainm (talk) 12:13, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

───────────────── Need sources? There are they. For Ronnie O'Sullivan, for Stephen Maguire, for Shaun Murphy, for John Higgins, for Allister Carter, for Ryan Day, for Mark Selby, for Marco Fu, for Neil Robertson, for Stephen Hendry, for Mark Allen, for Joe Perry, for Ding Junhui, for Peter Ebdon, for Mark Williams and for Mark King. Armbrust Talk Contribs 12:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

So you have provided me sources that lists the birthplace of each player, that is not in doubt, but a flag is being used on this template to show their birthplace and is against WP:FLAGBIO. I asked for one that showed that the players represented the country that the flag is showing in an international tournament.Mo ainm (talk) 12:48, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
The sources say "Country" not "Birthplace". Armbrust Talk Contribs 12:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
So where did they represent their country? And why has Fu got two countries Hong Kong and China, is it because he was born in HK? Mo ainm (talk) 13:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
The players represent generaly. As it can be seen there. Armbrust Talk Contribs 13:16, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
So did England win that tournament or was it the player? Mo ainm (talk) 13:26, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
A player who represent England. Armbrust Talk Contribs 13:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Right unless a source is provided to show that these players represented their country in an international event then the flags are coming out per WP:FLAGBIO. We have a source for 3 of them that shows they played for their country a decade ago, the rest not. I will give you time to provide the sources, I have tried to find some and couldn't maybe you will have more luck. Mo ainm (talk) 13:50, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

───────────────── WP:FLAGBIO can't be aplied as the flags don't represent location of birth in these case. See: WP:SNOOKER/NF. Armbrust Talk Contribs 14:02, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Besides the snooker world cup, there has also been the English professional championship, Scottish professional, Welsh professional and Irish professional. Regardless of whether these competitons continue, they established a precedent for the "nationalist" organisation of the game. The national structure is still very important at amateur level, since the English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and Chinese associations are allocated qualification places on the main tour. If governing bodies and reliable sources say the players represent countries then it is perfectly proper Wikipedia to document that. Betty Logan (talk) 17:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
And again could you provide a reliable source that these players play for their country, I have asked before and I am still waiting. I don't want to know about the amateur sport as I am not asking about that.Mo ainm (talk) 19:05, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
We don't have to provide you with anything. The associations of countries with players is verifiably consistent with sources such as BBC and Eurosport, so as far as Armbrust and I are concerned the relevant Wikipedia criteria for inclusion has been met. If you want to remove the national associations from the presentation that was agreed by the Snooker Project you must obtain a consensus to do so. Unless other editors join the discussion it's over as far as I'm concerned. Betty Logan (talk) 19:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
I totaly agree with Betty Logan. I think you're just being pointy. Armbrust Talk Contribs 20:05, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Could you explain how? Mo ainm (talk) 09:54, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
@Armburst you have made an allegation that I am disrupting wikipedia now please back this up or strike you personal attack. Have you even read what you linked to? It states However, just because someone is making a point does not mean that they are disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate it, which is the only circumstance under which someone should be warned about this guideline. Mo ainm (talk) 13:29, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
@Armburst. Thank you for striking the comment. Mo ainm (talk) 14:15, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Two templates?[edit]

Is there a reason we have both of these: Template:Top sixteen professional snooker players and Template:Snooker Top 16 2010/11. They look pretty much identical to me. Should we just redirect one? Betty Logan (talk) 03:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Forget it. I see there are templates for other seasons too. Presumably the seasonal ones go on season specific articles? Betty Logan (talk) 04:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)The reason is that {{Snooker Top 16 2010/11}} represents the top 16 of the 2010/2011 season and {{Top sixteen professional snooker players}} represents the current top 16. The first will contain all revisions for this season, but the second only just the most recent. Armbrust Talk Contribs 04:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Only official revisions[edit]

I have added a comment to the template: "This template should only be updated to reflect changes in the rankings (ie official revisions) and not changes in the "provisional" rankings". I'm assuming that we don't want the list to be updated between official changes. Nigej (talk) 16:25, 14 December 2016 (UTC)