User talk:DH85868993

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search



1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Beretta Spanish GP 94[edit]

Hi, I have now cited Beretta's DNS, see also Schumacher at French GP 96 for consistency. Bigmike (talk) 11:54, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the cite. I've started a discussion at WP:F1 so we can gain consensus regarding the correct result and update all the affected articles. DH85868993 (talk) 12:48, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Vikramarkudu[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Vikramarkudu has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. SuperHero ● πŸ‘Š ● β˜… 14:13, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[edit] Doornbos drove with the Monagasque license. β€” Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:48, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

I've started a discussion at the Formula One WikiProject. DH85868993 (talk) 02:39, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this up. β€” Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:20, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

No worries. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. DH85868993 (talk) 10:18, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Keith Andrews[edit]

Thanks for your comment when reverting my edit at Keith Andrews.
I know WP:DDD is only a summary, but I thought "Don't include entries without a blue link." was a bright-line rule ? ? - Arjayay (talk) 10:39, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh my goodness! You are quite correct, of course. I've reverted my edit - I couldn't think of a suitable blue link to add - List of South Africa national rugby union players or 1994 South Africa rugby union tour of New Zealand are probably the best candidates. Thanks for pointing out my error. DH85868993 (talk) 11:47, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
No worries - I couldn't see a particularly useful blue link either, which is why I deleted the red rather than adding the blue - Arjayay (talk) 12:02, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Achieving a consensus[edit]

I noticed in your comments in the discussion at WT:F1 that you support my proposal on the condition that a consensus is achieved. This, of course, would be needed, but I am wondering what you think a consensus would actually look like. I have noticed that some conservative editors have developed the habit of dragging discussions out to prevent a consensus, denying that a consensus has been formed, or reverting edits because they were not part of the discussion after their initial contributions. This happened recently at 2017 World Rally Championship where editors formed a consensus, but someone in the minority opposed to the changes re-framed the discussion as an issue for WP:MOTOR and forced everyone to go through the discussion again.

I am concerned that the same thing is going to happen here—that a group of editors will form a consensus, but a minority opposed to the changes will deliberately drag the comversation out to prevent the changes from happening. I feel that's what happened the first time I proposed this—that I had people open to the change, but certain editors opposed to it shifted the discussion away from article titles to prevent the discussion going any further and the changes being accepted.

So, what would you consider to be a consensus in this case? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:17, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi PM. Even though the revived discussion has only been going for about 4 days, I think we could probably already claim that there's consensus that the current naming scheme is unsuitable. Given that, the next stage is to determine the best way to change it. Your proposal of "one article per year from 1984 onwards / two articles per year before 1984" already has 3 editors in support with nobody expressing any objections, so I think we're close to being able to say there's consensus for that too. After which the next stage is to gain agreement on the exact titles for the articles. This will probably be the most difficult part, but hopefully people will be willing to compromise for "the greater good". "Objecting latecomers" are always a possibility, but I think they will need to provide good arguments to counter what has already been agreed (i.e. that the current names are unsuitable and the agreed way forward) - WP:IDONTLIKEIT won't be good enough. DH85868993 (talk) 10:40, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to think that the exact name will be the easiest part to agree on since we all want the same thing. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:58, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
I hope you're right! DH85868993 (talk) 22:36, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
In the interests of keeping the ball rolling, I've added a new subsection to the discussion. I've tried to structure it so that newcomers can jump in at any point whilst making it easier to follow the individual avenues of discussion. And it's nice to see that another user has gotten on-board. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 05:50, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
Well, we've got our first bit of resistance ... and it's a pretty flimsy excuse. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:29, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ We need to start moving those articles today. Tvx1 has finally contributed to the discussion—I'm surprised it took him this long—and he's opposing it on the grounds of COMMONNAME. I anticipated this a while ago and have posted a counter-argument, but the longer it takes us to implement the changes, the more traction he will get and even with the consensus, he will try and stop the changes from happening. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:06, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I'd say there's consensus for the articles from 1981 onwards to be moved, so I don't see any problems with that being done. I'm not sure there's consensus for 1950-1980 yet. DH85868993 (talk) 22:24, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
Well, let's get started with the post-1980 articles. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:44, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi PM. Sorry to be so long in replying. I've been offline for most of the past week. I see the 1981-2018 articles have all been moved now. DH85868993 (talk) 23:37, 8 September 2017 (UTC)


Hi DH,
You've probably noticed an editor adding tables for lesser formulae to some F1 driver articles? I seem to remember a brief discussion about tables needing sources (source rows) which came about as a result of a GA submission. (I think Zwerg was involved also). Do you recall this? It does not seem to be included in the conventions page(s). Also some slightly unusual linking... piping of "Shadow Racing Cars" to "Shadow Racing Team" for example... and some other changes at Arturo Merzario and Jacky Ickx. Cheers. Eagleash (talk) 09:47, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Eagleash. I don't remember a discussion about tables needing source rows (but that doesn't mean there wasn't one - perhaps it was part of specific GA discussion?) Regarding the linking, sources are notoriously inconsistent regarding team/entrant names - presumably the editor has a source which gives the entrant name as "Shadow Racing Team". As for the other changes, e.g. changing "Cosworth V8" to "Ford Cosworth DFV 3.0 V8", it's not strictly in line with our standard table format, but there are already so many tables which don't conform to the standard that as long as the information is accurate, I don't tend to worry about it too much. DH85868993 (talk) 07:50, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 6[edit]

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Roger Ward, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Homicide (TV series) (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:06, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks, DPL bot. DH85868993 (talk) 23:20, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Valtteri Bottas[edit]

Hi. Seems fi:VillΓ€hde is a part of the Nastola. I noticed some sources says he grew up there or in the interview he said his first home was in VillΓ€hde. Would be good to find source which says he was born there (good article in Finnish version says it only in top of te article and it is unsourced). Eurohunter (talk) 12:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Re: 1990 United States Grand Prix[edit]

Looking now in my computer browser, the edit appears to be fine. I checked with my phone, which I believe I was using when I noticed the broken template, and it now appears to be fine as well. I do remember checking all of Bluebird's individual edits to try and find the cause, and for some reason only the final one appeared to break the template even though the edit had nothing to do with the template. I also remember that the template loaded only down to about the Season_No parameter, so hopefully that helps. The359 (Talk) 08:55, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

I do remember attempting the page more than once to be sure, but I can't replicate it now so I have no problem with the edit that was made. The359 (Talk) 09:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

F1 2017 Toro Rosso Drivers[edit]

You were involved in the discussion about the order of the Toro Rosso drivers on the page: 2017_FIA_Formula_One_World_Championship. Unfortunately we have been unable to resolve this issue and I have decided to take this to DRN. Given your involvement in this discussion, I have included yourself on the list of involved users. You can find the information of the dispute below. Thanks.

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion[edit]


This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Talk:2017 FIA Formula One World Championship. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

Wikipediaeditperson (talk) 19:05, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Replacing bgcolor[edit]

Hi! This is a very old edit, so sorry to bother you about it, but what you did here didn't work. The reason is that those cells already had style tags, so the first one isn't recognized. I fixed it in this edit, but you might want to go over similar articles to see if the same error exists there. Jon Harald SΓΈby (talk) 12:22, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Ah yes. I'll check similar articles. Thanks for letting me know. DH85868993 (talk) 19:41, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

New Page Reviewing[edit]

Wikipedia New page reviewer.svg
Hello, DH85868993.

As one of Wikipedia's most experienced Wikipedia editors,
Would you please consider becoming a New Page Reviewer? Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; currently Wikipedia needs experienced users at this task. (After gaining the flag, patrolling is not mandatory. One can do it at their convenience). But kindly read the tutorial before making your decision. Thanks. β€” Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 01:47, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]

Scale of justice 2.svgHello, DH85868993. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)


Sorry, I was plowing through a block of vandalous edits, yours was caught in the middle and I only noticed after the fact that it was from a different user (yourself). You are correct, you were just making the TOC consistent. Real tlhingan (talk) 00:47, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

No probs. Thanks for the apology. DH85868993 (talk) 00:49, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Jon Anderson image[edit]

Hi, thanks for your inquiry about my image File:Jon anderson 1978.jpg which was indeed taken in August, 1977; my memory was flawed when I named it. You're very kind to offer to change the name to "File:Jon anderson 1977.jpg" and make any necessary link changes. I accept your offer. Thanks! RickDikeman (talk) 12:07, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Template updates[edit]

Hi DH,

I was hoping you might be able to help me out with something. You've updated templates for me before, and I'm afraid I haven't gotten any better at it. When I'm experimenting in sandboxes, I tend to break templates. Could you please take a look at Template:Infobox rally for me? I have a few parameters that I would like to add:

  • A "Season_no" parameter, like in Template:Infobox Grand Prix race report so that the line "Round 1 of the 2018 FIA World Rally Championship" can read "Round 1 of 13 in the 2018 FIA World Rally Championship".
  • A "transportkm" parameter, preferably between "stagekm" and "overallkm". Right now, it's not clear why there are 400km of stages, but 1700km in total; transport (or liaison) is the distance driving between stages.
  • A "codriver1" parameter alongside "driver1" and "team1". Far too many rally articles emphasise the drivers without acknowledging the co-drivers. I've been using a line break, but I'd like to incorporate it properly.
  • A "driver/codriver/team2" and "driver/codriver/team3" set of parameters so that we can list the full podium. I'd also like to be able to include the top three rally times if possible.
  • A "powerstage1" parameter so that we can list the winning crew and team of the power stage, as it is worth additional points.

I know that's a pretty lengthy wishlist and I know you're probably very busy right now, but I would really appreciate it if you could lend a hand. Elevating WRC articles to the same level as F1 articles has been a long-term goal of mine and this is one thing on a long to-do list that I simply cannot do on my own. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 01:30, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi PM. Sure. Happy to have a go. I'll let you know when (I think) I'm done. DH85868993 (talk) 03:09, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
@Prisonermonkeys: I've added the new fields to Template:Infobox rally/sandbox. I created three "powerstage" parameters (powerstage_driver1, powerstage_codriver1 and powerstage_team1) but can change it to a single parameter if that's preferable. You can see how the new fields appear in Template:Infobox rally/testcases. If you're happy with the appearance, I'll transfer the contents of the sandbox version of the template to the "live" version and update the template documentation. DH85868993 (talk) 03:55, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, DH. That's exactly what I was hoping for. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 04:24, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Cool. I'll transfer the changes to the live template and update the template documentation. DH85868993 (talk) 04:27, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Done. DH85868993 (talk) 04:47, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I've been fiddling with the infobox at 2018 Monte Carlo Rally and it's all working as expected, but I get errors message that I haven't seen before in the preview window. They read "Warning: Page using Template:Infobox rally with unknown parameter "season_no" (this message is shown only in preview)." and "Warning: Page using Template:Infobox rally with unknown parameter "transportkm" (this message is shown only in preview)." Have I done something wrong? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:03, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
My bad. I forgot to add the new parameters to the "known parameters" list inside the template. Should be fixed now. DH85868993 (talk) 06:13, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ It's all fixed now. Next step is to create a template like Template:F1 race report for the bottom of rally reports. Any advice on what to do? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

@Prisonermonkeys: Sorry for the delay in replying - I've been away from my computer for a few hours. My suggestion would be to just create the new template, based on Template:F1 race report but with all the F1-specific stuff removed. I'd be happy to have a go at it if you like. I'd suggest calling the template Template:Rally succession box (in hindsight, "F1 race report" probably wasn't the best name for the F1 one), with parameters "Year_of_rally", "Name_of_rally", "Previous_rally_in_season", "Next_rally_in_season", "Previous_year's_rally" and "Next_year's_rally". Sound good? DH85868993 (talk) 10:15, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
OK, so I got enthusiastic and created Template:Rally succession box, as described above - and then discovered the existing Template:WRC race report, which I think is pretty much what you're looking for, and is already in use. If the existing template does meet your needs, let me know and I'll get the new one deleted. DH85868993 (talk) 11:05, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Hey, I made a few tweaks to Template:Infobox rally. I changed the podium places to the WRC-2 and WRC-3 winners, since it's multi-class racing and the WRC-2 and -3 are World Championship titles. Do you mind checking over my work to make sure I have done everything properly? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:04, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜ Hi DH,

Thanks for all your help with updating the infoboxes. I've really learned a lot. I've been trying to add some more paramaters to Template:Infobox Grand Prix race report, but they're completely beyond me. I want to add the "previous round" and "next round" parameters, like the ones in Template:Infobox rally because right now the only way to move on to the next round is to scroll to the bottom of the page and follow the link in the "external links" section. Could you please take a look and see if adding these parameters is possible? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:58, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

@Prisonermonkeys: It probably wouldn't be too hard to add the links, but I'm not sure they're really necessary, since (as you pointed out), all the articles which transclude the template already have previous/next round links in the navbox at the bottom of the article. (Note this is different to {{Infobox rally}}, where most of the articles which transclude that template don't have previous/next round links at the bottom). However, I'll be happy to add the links if you can gain consensus for the change on the template's talk page. DH85868993 (talk) 10:40, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
I've raised the issue at WT:F1 since it gets more traffic than the template talk page. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 04:09, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
Fair enough. I've advertised the discussion at WT:MOTOR and the template's talk page, in the hopes of maximizing input. DH85868993 (talk) 21:56, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi DH,
It's been nearly two weeks and nobody has objected to the proposed changes. Nobody has supported them, either, but I don't think the changes would be terribly controversial if you made them. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:04, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
@Prisonermonkeys: Fair enough. I'll try to get it done some time over the weekend. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 06:36, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
@Prisonermonkeys: I've added the new parameters: Previous_round and Next_round. Let me know if you have any issues. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 10:12, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Articles for Creation Reviewing[edit]

Hello, DH85868993.
AfC submissions
Random submission
2+ months
3731 pending submissions
Purge to update

I recently sent you an invitation to join NPP, but you also might be the right candidate for another related project, AfC, which is also extremely backlogged.
Would you please consider becoming an Articles for Creation reviewer? Articles for Creation reviewers help new users learn the ropes of creating their first articles, and identify whether topics are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. Reviewing drafts doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia inclusion policies and guidelines; currently Wikipedia needs experienced users at this task. (After requesting to be added to the project, reviewing is not mandatory. One can do it at their convenience). But kindly read the reviewing instructions before making your decision. Thanks. β€” Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 03:11, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about John Judd (actor)[edit]

Hello, DH85868993,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether John Judd (actor) should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Judd (actor) .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.


Elmidae (talk Β· contribs) 10:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Select Survey Invite[edit]

I'm working on a study of political motivations and how they affect editing. I'd like to ask you to take a survey. The survey should take no more than 1-2 minutes. Your survey responses will be kept private. Our project is documented at

Your survey Link:

I am asking you to participate in this study because you are a frequent editor of pages on Wikipedia that are of political interest. We would like to learn about your experiences in dealing with editors of different political orientations.

Sincere thanks for your help! Porteclefs (talk) 12:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Template:Formula One nationalities[edit]

Hi! Why you have unlinked only Chile? The Czech Republic, Hungary, Indonesia, Liechtenstein, Malaysia, Poland and Thailand only have just one driver. May be we should create a redirect to the drivers for all the countries? 05:00, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Corvus tristis. As you may be aware, Formula One drivers from Chile was recently deleted. As part of closing the deletion discussion, User:Spartaz removed Chile from the template altogether. I added Chile back into the template, but unlinked, in keeping with standard practice of not (re)creating links to deleted articles. But I agree that it might be sensible to link the countries which only have one driver to that driver, either via a redirect, or a direct link - it's probably more helpful than a redlink or an unlinked word. DH85868993 (talk) 11:09, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

More issues with templates[edit]

Hi DH85868893,

Do you know why Template:Infobox Grand Prix race report is not displaying properly? For some reason, the flagicon and race title are appearing on separate lines instead of alongside one another.

@Prisonermonkeys: I checked several random F1 race reports and it's displaying OK for me on both desktop and mobile - can you identify a particular article where it's not displaying correctly for you? DH85868993 (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
All of them, really. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:58, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Also, it might be worth re-working the template to remove the flagicon entirely (we use flags for venues, not Grands Prix in championship articles) and replacing it with the blue-grey bar and native title, such as in Template:Infobox rally. I'll put it to WP:F1 if you think the markup is managable. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 13:21, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

The markup should be manageable - feel free to put it to WP:F1, although the template is also used in non-F1 race reports, so perhaps it might need to be discussed at WP:MOTOR instead. DH85868993 (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I'll get onto it some time today. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:58, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi DH,
I put the proposal for changes to the infobox up at WP:F1. It's been nearly a week and nobody has commented, so I don't think they'll object to the changes. Could you please go ahead and make them? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 03:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
Somebody has now commented, so I will hold off for the moment. I've also advertised the discussion at WT:MOTOR and on the template's talk page. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 04:34, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


I put the precision of the pilot looks there is not true you can read-- (talk) 13:34, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello DH85868993, the IP is currently a sock of cross-wiki LTA user De la lombertie. 'Cheers, Loopy30 (talk) 17:26, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
@Loopy30: Thanks for the info. DH85868993 (talk) 21:26, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Your revert on List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions[edit]

Thanks. Had a silly five minutes, and I had checked the 2007 article to clarify his number. I remember the 'stat' about him and Jenson having the same number now that I think about it too. Never mind me! Harrias talk 18:30, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

No worries. DH85868993 (talk) 22:31, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

2013 Hungarian Grand Prix - Bottas Retirement[edit]

Acknowledge that Forix shows Bottas retiring on lap 42 - appears that he was 3 laps down when he retired, and that the race leaders were on lap 45 (verified by both race coverage and live reports - see Should he therefore not be listed as retiring on lap 45? Dunleavb (talk) 23:05, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Dunleavb. I wasn't aware that Bottas was 3 laps down. What do you think about the idea of rewording it as "when the race leaders were on lap 45", for clarity? DH85868993 (talk) 23:38, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that works. Though for the life of me I can’t remember why he was 3 laps down - only noticed as there was a rerun of the race on TV...! β€” Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunleavb (talk β€’ contribs) 07:34, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

I've updated the article. Thanks! DH85868993 (talk) 08:41, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

David Murray[edit]

Hello DH85868993,

I was going through some stats and I'd like to ask for your input. Some sources list David Murray in a Maserati 4CL at the 1950 Italian GP and some list him in a 4CLT/48. I was looking for some pictures of the car but this is the only somewhat decent one I found. Murray's car is the one on the left on the second-last row of the grid. I think it it's the 4CLT/48 but i'm not completely sure. What do you think? Jahn1234567890 (talk) 20:08, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jahn1234567890. It certainly looks like a 4CLT/48 to me.
  • identifies the car as 4CLT/48 chassis number 1593; both and identify chassis 1593 as a 4CLT/48.
  • Sheldon & Rabagliati's A Record of Grand Prix and Voiturette Racing identifies the car as a 4CL, but lists a "4CLT/48" chassis number (1595).
  • identifies the car as 4CLT/48 chassis 1595.
So, even though normally reliable aources FORIX and ChicaneF1 say 4CL, I think there's fairly good evidence that it was actually a 4CLT/48 (either 1593 or 1595). But it's always tricky when normally reliable sources disagree. I'll see if I can find any other photos. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 22:12, 29 August 2018 (UTC) states Scuderia Ambrosiana used a 4CL (1569) as a backup car in 1950. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:33, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
Ecurie Ecosse – David Murray The last picture shows a Maserati 4CLT/48 with No. 50. The text bellow the picture says before the start in Monza. This has got to be the car we are searching for! So the car Murray drove definitely is a Maserati 4CLT/48. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 23:53, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
Cool! It was fun doing the investigation. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 00:09, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Karl Kling[edit]

I completely misread that, my bad. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 21:50, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

No worries; we all do it from time to time. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 21:54, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Maserati at Indianapolis[edit]

Hello DH85868993,

I'm sorry to bother you again, but I was going through the stats of the Maserati cars that competed at the Indy 500 when it was part of the World Championship. I'm having trouble finding sources that also state the model of the car rather than only the constructor. Maybe you can help me out.

StatsF1 list all Maserati cars that entered Indy between 1950-1953 and the Morgan Engineering entry of 1957 as a Maserati 8CTF.

I noticed kolumbus list the record of the 8CTF at Indianapolis. They only list a few of the entries stated by statsF1. So either the kolumbus list is incomplete or StatsF1 is wrong.

The Morgan Engineering entry was definitely a Maserati 4CLT/48 (chassis 1604 as stated by Here is a picture of the car

MotorSportMagazine vaguely states that the car Mike Burch dove in 1950 was a Maserati V8 RI.

Perhaps you know some more sources? Maybe forix has anything on this. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 00:06, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jahn1234567890. FORIX only lists the following Maserati Indy entries (unfortunately they don't seem to have included the details for the DNQs):
  • 1950 12 Henry Banks Maserati 8CTF Offenhauser 3.0 L4C
  • 1950 21 Spider Webb Maserati 8CTF Offenhauser 4.5 L4
  • 1951 12 Johnny McDowell Maserati 8CTF Offenhauser 3.0 L4C
I'll have a look around for other sources when I get home. DH85868993 (talk) 01:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
motorsportmagazine suggests that:
  • In 1950, Webb's car (entered by R.A.Cott/Fadely-Anderson) was 8CTF 3030 fitted with a 4-cylinder Offenhauser
  • In 1950, Banks' car (entered by Indianapolis Race Cars) was 8CL 3035 fitted with a 4-cylinder Offenhauser
  • In 1950, Indianapolis Race Cars also entered 8CTF 3032 but it "did not get beyond practice" - presumably this is Vukovich's #10 car
  • In 1951, McDowell's car (entered by Maserati Race Cars) was 8CTF 3030 fitted with a supercharged 3-litre Offenhauser engine
  • In 1951, Maserati Race Cars also entered 8CTF 3032 "unchanged from the Shaw days" but with no driver nominated
  • In 1951, Joe Barzda entered 8CTF 3031 "as a normal 8CTF" (= with a Maserati engine?) for Bud Sennett to drive, but he crashed in practice
  • Joe Barzda entered 8CTF 3031 in 1952 and 1953 but it failed to qualify on each occasion
DH85868993 (talk) 07:04, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
This page identifies 8CL 3035 as Banks' car in 1950 and also as Newman's 1953 car. DH85868993 (talk) 07:15, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
As with the 4CLT/48 of Kladis I highly doubt the V8RI (chassis 4501) of Mike Burch had a straight-eight supercharged engine. When chassis 4501 last raced at Indy in 1949, the car had an 4.5 L straight-4 Offenhauser engine. That Maserati was originally powered by an Maserati V8 engine. I think the car of Burch was powered by one of those engines. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 14:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
conceptcarz claims that chassis 3031 ran each year at the Indy 500 until 1953. If this source is correct one of the two remaining unknown Maserati's of 1950 would be an 8CTF. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 20:08, 5 September 2018 (UTC) says "Barzda's 1951 Indianapolis 500 attempt was notable as he tried to qualify his own 8CTF Maserati pre-war Grand Prix car, which Barzda tweaked to accommodate an Offenhauser engine." Could this be 3032? Given that 3030 and 3031 are already accounted for that year, and Holmes' 1952 car (suspected to be 3032) has an Offenhauser engine.
After going through the sources on your sandbox I'm pretty sure Mike Burch never made any attempt to qualify for the Indy 500. If he failed his physical exam there is no chance he ever hit the track. I also doubt if there ever was a Maserati. All pictures of the No. 84 are of the Miller Ford. champcarstats list both drivers of the No. 84, but they list the Miller Ford. I don't trust StatsF1 on the chassis stats simply because they ist every Maserati that attempted Indy as an 8CTF (except for Ralph Liguori's 420M in 1959). Only 3 8CTF's were built wich makes it quite impossible for all cars to be that type of Maserati. I would not be surprised if other sources copied those statistics from StatsF1. Burch is one of the most obscure driver that entered the Indianapolis 500 so it's going to be difficult to find new information, but I will see if I can find any more on this. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 15:16, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

β”Œβ”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”€β”˜It's very confusing, isn't it? Sources such as racing-reference, conceptcarz and describe Burch and/or Earl driving #84 Miller-Ford (the "Shreve Special"), but multiple other sources, e.g. StatsF1,, motorsportmagazine(1) and motorsportmagazine(2) make reference to Burch in a Maserati (although some say 8CTF and others say V8RI). As you say, it hard to know when one site has copied from another. Most convincing for me is motorsportmagazine(2) - Denis Jenkinson (DSJ) is usually very reliable. I'll also continue to investigate further. DH85868993 (talk) 02:24, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

I found a great thread on Maserati at Indianapolis on a Autosport forum. There is a lot of information on here. It will take a while to go through all. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 10:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)


(Jahn1234567890, feel free to update this table as/if you find more information)

Year Entrant No Driver Type Chassis Engine Notes
1950 Indianapolis Race Cars 10 Bill Vukovich 8CTF[1] 3032[1] Maserati[2] L8c[2] motorsportmagazine says that in addition to Banks' car, Indianapolis Race Cars also entered 8CTF 3032; this must be Vukovich's car
1950 Indianapolis Race Cars 12 Henry Banks 8CL[3][4] 3035[3][4] Offenhauser[3][5][2] L4c[2]
1950 Fadely-Anderson/R.A. Cott 21 Spider Webb 8CTF[1][3] 3030[1][3] Offenhauser[5][1][3][2] L4[1][3][2]
1950 Federal Engineering 39 Danny Kladis Maserati[5][2] L8c[2] Maybe 8CTF 3031? See Note 2
1950 George Hoster Inc. 84 Mike Burch V8RI[6] 4501[6] StatsF1 says the engine was a L8c, but this is questionable. When chassis 4501 last raced at Indy in 1949, the car had an 4.5 L straight-4 Offenhauser engine. That Maserati was originally powered by a Maserati V8 engine. Suspect the car was powered by one of those engines
1950 Coast Grain 85 Jim Rigsby/
Manny Ayulo
V8RI[7] 4502[7] Offenhauser[5][2] L4[2]
1951 W.J. / Maserati Race Cars 12 Johnny McDowell 8CTF[1][3][8] 3030[1][3] or 3032[8][9] Offenhauser[3][1][10][2] L4c[2][3] kolumbus says 4.5 litre Offenhauser.
1951 Joe Barzda 49 Joe Barzda 8CTF[11][12] Offenhauser[10][2][11] L4[2] If it's an 8CTF, it must be either 3030 or 3032 - whichever one McDowell's car isn't!
1951 Auto Accessories / Joe Barzda 51 Bud Sennett 8CTF[3] 3031[3] Maserati[10][2] L8c[2] See Note 1
1952 Fadely-Anderson/R.A. Cott 23 Carl Forberg Offenhauser[13][2] L4[2] Maybe 8CTF 3030, same as in 1950?
1952 Speed International 41 Jackie Holmes 8CTF[14] 3032[14] Offenhauser[13][2] L4c[2]
1952 California Speed 53 Joe Barzda 8CTF[3] 3031[3] Offenhauser[13][2] L4[2] See Note 1
1953 Roy Newman 43 Roy Newman 8CL[4] 3035[4] Maserati[15][2] L8c[2]
1953 California Speed 69 Joe Barzda 8CTF[1][3] 3031[1][3] Maserati[15][2] L8c[2] See Note 1
1953 Fadely-Anderson/R.A. Cott 89 Spider Webb Offenhauser[15][2] L4[2] Maybe 8CTF 3030, same as in 1950?
1957 Morgan Engineering 72 Danny Kladis 4CLT/48[16] 1604[16] Maserati[16] L4

StatsF1 says the engine was a L8c, but this is questionable. Here's a picture of the engine


  1. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k kolumbus
  2. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z aa ab statsf1
  3. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q motorsportmagazine
  4. ^ a b c d barchetta
  5. ^ a b c d racingreference 1950
  6. ^ a b motorsportmagazine V8 RI
  7. ^ a b jalopyjournal
  8. ^ a b historicvehicle claims the 8CTF Johnny McDowell drove in 1951 was the 3032 (The Boyle Special).
  9. ^ Johnny McDowell's son says the 8CTF McDowell raced in 1951 was 3032 (The Boyle Special) in the thoughts section on this website
  10. ^ a b c racingreference 1951
  11. ^ a b says "Barzda's 1951 Indianapolis 500 attempt was notable as he tried to qualify his own 8CTF Maserati pre-war Grand Prix car, which Barzda tweaked to accommodate an Offenhauser engine."
  12. ^ says "in 1951, he [Barzda] attempted to qualify one of his two pre-war 8CTF Grand Prix Maserati"
  13. ^ a b c racingreference 1952
  14. ^ a b says "This year [1952] he [Holmes] was chosen to drive the famous Maserati that Wilbur Shaw twice drove to victory at Indianapolis [= 8CTF 3032]"
  15. ^ a b c racingreference 1953
  16. ^ a b c historicracing


  1. kolumbus shows Joe Barzda entering 8CTF 3031 for Bud Sennett in 1952 and unknown drivers in 1953 and 1954. StatsF1 shows Barzda and Sennett both entered in 1951 and Barzda entered as a driver in 1952 and 1953. motorsportmagazine says Barzda entered 3031 for Sennett in 1951 and then entered it again (for himself?) in 1952 and 1953. So DH85868993 is inclined to believe that 3031 was entered in 1951, 1952 and 1953 and that kolumbus (which says 1952, 1953 and 1954) is incorrect.
  2. conceptcarz claims that chassis 3031 ran each year at the Indy 500 until 1953.