User talk:Seraphim System

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Crystal Clear app xclock.svg Seraphim System is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries. If you have an urgent matter, it may be best to use email.


Please comment on Talk:John Taylor, Baron Taylor of Warwick[edit]

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Tech News: 2018-29[edit]

16:01, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Sierra Hull[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Donald Trump[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Eugene Gu[edit]

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August 2018 at Women in Red[edit]

Women in Red logo.svg
An exciting new month for Women in Red!


August 2018 worldwide online editathons:
New: Indigenous women Women of marginalized populations Women writers Geofocus: Bottom 10
Continuing: #1day1woman Global Initiative
Notable women, broadly-construed!



For the first time, this month we are trying out our Monthly achievement initiative

  • All creators of new biographies can keep track of their progress and earn virtual awards.
  • It can be used in conjunction with the above editathons or for any women's biography created in August.
  • Try it out when you create your first biography of the month.

Latest headlines, news, and views on the Women in Red talkpage (Join the conversation!):

(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 11:22, 23 July 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Please comment on Talk:Donald Trump[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Disappearance of Asha Degree[edit]

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Please comment on Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons[edit]

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The Signpost: 31 July 2018[edit]

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Request for comment of Israeli neighborhoods[edit]

I have opened an RFC for several of the Israeli cities that I think are un-encyclopedic. I appreciate input from you as you were involved in discussion on Israel related topics. Thank you. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 14:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Elon Musk[edit]

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Elon Musk. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

I wanted to take this off-line just to prevent another wall-of-text and extended conversation, but you are brief and succinct, so I thought we might have a side-conversation and I'll bring it back to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Iran#Sources.

I would change my position back to something close to my original position if it was clear that there was a way to identify sources that could be candidates for MEK news stories from Iranian sources.

In the states, for instance, if there is a controversial topic, we generally start with The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and for a conservative, but generally good source, The Washington Post. If we need to ensure that we're getting a conservative voice, we add Fox News for balance. I'm just trying to figure out if there is a place to start... or, a method for evaluating sources as Eperoton described... with a "reputation for fact-checking and accuracy".

How can we get there?–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

This is one Routledge source that might be on topic [5] - especially the list of newspapers seems fairly detailed in the ideological orientation of different papers and even notes some of the changes that Tehran Times has gone through over the years. I don't have access to the full list but it's a good reference for anyone who wants to know more about different Iranian newspapers. Seraphim System (talk) 16:28, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, thanks, this is helpful. I have been looking at it and may update List of newspapers in Iran with what pages I can see. Sometimes people located in different countries see different pages, so I'm not sure if we're seeing the same pages. I am guessing that "pro-reform" would be most likely to veer away from the government stances on topics.–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:01, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

3RR Warning on Brett Kavanaugh[edit]

I consider this edit extremely close to violating 3RR even though you invoke 3RRNO. In the future, please follow what 3RRNO says and consider the BLP Noticeboard or request page protection instead of continuing to revert. I have fully protected the page. KnightLago (talk) 21:08, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@KnightLago: Will do, I hadn't thought of requesting page protection. I don't work BLPs very often, it's too stressful, and there have been other issues with this editor on the article. Thanks for the advice. Seraphim System (talk) 21:13, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-32[edit]

19:39, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Philip II of Spain[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Caucher Birkar[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Martha McSally[edit]

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Please comment on Talk:Joan Freeman (Irish psychologist)[edit]

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Important Notice[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svgThis is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

TonyBallioni (talk) 03:39, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

FYI Corbyn is under 1RR. The other editor just reverted you, so no need to self-revert since you weren't formally aware of the BLP sanctions. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the warning. I was about to self-revert, but he had already restored the content. Seraphim System (talk) 03:48, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Tham Luang cave rescue[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018[edit]

Full front page of The Bugle
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If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:35, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Brett Kavanaugh[edit]

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Glyphosate-based formulations[edit]

Just a note that I redirected your recent new article back to glyphosate. That's in part because it's not the Roundup article that had been discussed, but also that such a title is entirely redundant to the glyphosate article (more so than if it was Roundup). Please read the discussion so far on the talk page. You were already aware that there were issues with doing this, so do be mindful of needing to hash out such details in discussions of sandboxes first. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:35, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

I undid this, no it's not. No editor needs your approval to create independent notable articles and you absolutely can not just blank them because WP:JDL. There is a ton of content in that article that your redirect blanked without justification and none of what you are saying above is accurate or supported by reliable sources. There are important regulatory differences in how the two are treated, especially in the EU. Seraphim System (talk) 15:38, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Read my message below first that I wrote before your reply. Anything in that article was either already redundant with the glyphosate article or far from WP:DUE, which you were already cautioned about in talk page discussion. Again, please slow down and come to the article talk page. Some of this touches on WP:FRINGE territory, so we already need to be careful, but you're also missing important scientific details with DUE in mind that are tripping you up right now. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I just saw the revert notification. Please keep in mind it was not article blanking. As I said above, you were already aware this was going to be a problem based on discussion already. You're also in violation of WP:1RR, so please undo your revert and slow down a bit. The expectation is that when someone makes a new edit and it gets reverted, they need to gain consensus for it. Also, please keep in mind that it becomes disruptive when someone says they are going to charge ahead without gaining consensus and labeling anyone calling that out as disruptive. This isn't a shoot first and ask questions later type of topic. Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I didn't know about 1RR or that this was an Arbitration area otherwise I would have immediately filed a complaint at AE. This isn't only a science article. This a law and history of agriculture article. Splitting them is completely appropriate and there is support for it on the talk page. You can address issues about what you think is FRINGE or UNDUE at the article talk page or at noticeboards, not by blanking the article. And no editor needs a consensus to create a new article - there are tons of sources for this, like all the content about alfalfa that you blanked that isn't discussed in the Glyphosate article. If editors want to discuss moving the title to Roundup or something like this, that is fine, but it should be handled through a RM proposal, not page blanking. Completely unacceptable. Seraphim System (talk) 15:57, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Though I would point out that reverting page blanking is within 1RRNO but I will prefer AE to edit warring if it is repeated.Seraphim System (talk) 15:59, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
There is no WP:1RRNO, but the fact remains that you were already cautioned about this in discussion and didn't gain consensus for this. Take my advice and slow down. Editors who come in hot-headed into this topic like you are doing right now pretty much always end up burning themselves out and missing important details, especially since you are mistakenly citing JDL. There was also caution about such an article turning into a WP:POVFORK in thos same discussions, which is what some of your edits are already introducing. I'm going to wait and see what other editors do for cleanup first, but after cleanup, it's looking like we're just going to mirror glyphosate as it is. Also, do not misrepresent my edits. No WP:BLANK occurred. That was a WP:REDIRECT that you were already aware was going to happen based on talk page conversation if the page was created haphazardly without some guiding discussion. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:10, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
If you want to make changes to the page then propose those or discuss them. I'm not a science expert, I'm a law expert. my educational background is in law. The issue of the different levels of regulations is significant. The EFSA has made the di stinction, it is formally supported and it is discussed by high quality secondary WP:RS. Not everything about this topic is about science. There is also enough content and history to create a standalone article about Roundup Ready Corn by the way. There is no policy anywhere in Wikipedia that says everything about this needs to be added to one article. That's not how article creation works.Seraphim System (talk) 16:22, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Again, please slow down. No one is an expert here at Wikipedia. We all just need competence in the subject matter, and in the intersection you are talking about, we need it both in the science and the law. The alfalfa stuff isn't really germane to an article about specific formulations, and you're frequently relying on known fringe sources like Carey Gilliam, USRTK, etc. You're starting down a path that ends up with those editors often topic-banned, so I'm trying to give you some guidance to head that off, especially since it looks like you've had problems with in the past. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:03, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
It sounds like you want to file a complaint at AE, which is not something I can help you with. Can you show me the noticeboard discussion about Carey Gillam as a source? I'm relying on the Guardian which published this, so I don't really see how this is FRINGE.Seraphim System (talk) 17:08, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
  • I just want to say here that I strongly support SS's creation of the new article, and I thank you for having created it. I do not want to see it made back into a redirect. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:41, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm giving you a heads-up that you just barely violated 1RR on the new page. Please be careful, because it's easy to get caught. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm going to piggyback here, but that actually is a violation of 1RR as having a revert that is easily considered gaming. Seraphim, it would be a different story if that was part of constructive edits rather than a blanket revert by trying to edit war content back in (e.g. even though I did the former and replaced your content with roughly agreed upon content to copy from glyphosate, I'm still careful of following the spirit of 1RR). You're quickly getting yourself in hot water, especially since you've been blocked for 1RR/edit warring violations in the past, so please pay attention to what people are saying at the talk pages. At this point, you at least need to undo the reverting back in of your own content and gain consensus as would be expected of my own new edits after you undid them. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
This is the second time you've accused me of violating 1RR when I haven't. I don't think your massive removals of content are constructive.If massive removal of sourced content continues like this as well as the addition of massive amounts of specialized technical content then I'm not sure what to do - maybe it will have to go to AE, especially the removals. Usually specialized technical articles are disambiguated as such - that usually isn't needed for Chemistry the way it is in Law where everything is Mistake (law) but in this case there is room for an article that is non-technical and I think the goal of not being too technical is fundamental. Seraphim System (talk) 16:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I apparently worded my previous note too vaguely, so I'll say now that you did violate 1RR in that it was slightly less than 24 hours. If I had thought it was blatant I would have gone to AE myself, but I want to cut you some slack because it was so borderline. But it was 2 reverts within 24 hours, and you really need to be careful. KoA, please let me suggest that you not reply further in this thread. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:55, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Which two reverts? If I did violate 1RR I'll self-revert but it's generally good practice to post diffs of the reverts also. This was a self-revert [9] Seraphim System (talk) 17:21, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I want to apologize to you. I was wrong. I can't figure out now what I thought I saw, but I must have gotten something confused. I'm sorry, and I've struck some of what I said earlier. Anyway, I see that you self-reverted anyway, and that was a very helpful move to make. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:44, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I think it was this: [10], followed by the revert today of KofA's 16 edits (that you now self-reverted). They were slightly more than 24 hours apart, and I somehow got the timestamps switched in my mind. My bad. Anyway, it's best not to even have reverts separated by only that much. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
That's a relief, it just scared me a bit. Yes, it is easy to get confused, better safe than sorry.Seraphim System (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Pesticide DS[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svgThis is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. 

In addition to the discretionary sanctions described above the Arbitration Committee has also imposed a restriction which states that you cannot make more than one revert on the same page in the same 24 hour period on all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology, or agricultural chemicals, broadly construed and subject to certain exemptions.

Kingofaces43 (talk) 15:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Tech News: 2018-33[edit]

17:53, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Nadine Dorries[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for August 14[edit]

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Gross-Rosen concentration camp, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Mill (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:15, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Your closure[edit]

Hey, I just reverted your closure and I said that "Sorry for the revert, we don't vote in Wiki and we don't count votes when assessing consensus. I suggest you close it as 'no consensus' or leave to a more experienced user." I hope the revert did not annoy you. Regards. --Mhhossein talk 13:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

User:Mhhossein Its not proper way to do it.As you have voted in RFC.If thought SS closure was improper you have should raised the issue at WP:AN/I-- Shrike (talk) 13:59, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Definitely shouldn't be no-consensus - the outcome there is rather clear, even if SS's rationale may need improving they assessed the discussion properly. A no consensus close is usually in WP:BADNAC - non-admins usually shouldn't close discussions that are too close to call (and no consensus is by definition usually such).Icewhiz (talk) 15:13, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't think it's no consensus, the close is supposed to assess the consensus not to offer my own opinion. As I said in the close several editors raised objections about NPOV and I thought I had mentioned it but I thought Pincrete, Calthinus and K.e.coffman made particularly strong arguments that this content was not appropriate/detrimental for the See Also section. If the explanation wasn't satisfactory, it should have been discussed and then I would have either modified the closing rationale or it could have gone to AN/I. Under no circumstances should any editor involved in an RfC revert a close unilaterally, and I've restored the close with the modification. Seraphim System (talk) 16:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
I don't insist on 'no consensus'. We don't have vote counting in Wikipedia. In fact, it's wrong to say "I count 4 votes either solely for neither or expressing a preference for neither as a first choice, 2 for both...", rather you'd better rely on the guideline based arguments. The closure is better now, although those vote countings are still seen. --Mhhossein talk 17:56, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
"I count" is just a figure of speech and I'm pretty sure I've seen admins use it in RfC closings, so I assumed it was ok. Closers definitely are supposed to count votes, but it is not the only factor. Those votes should be explained based on policy or sourcing, not just statements of opinion. If I had thought this was a difficult close, I would have left it for an admin. I noted here that editor's were concerned about NPOV and also that inclusion in the See Also section was not appropriate. Strength of the argument is not the same as agreeing wit the argument. Most of the editors seem to support neither - some for NPOV reasons and some because the content should be worked into the article. I think that is still a consensus for neither. This isn't capital punishment law, we don't need unanimous agreement for each justification given by editors.Seraphim System (talk) 18:07, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
SS did nothing wrong here. I'm pretty sure any admin would have made the same decision looking at the !votes. But if you want to raise issues about it this isn't the place anyways. --Calthinus (talk) 23:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)