Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Rfc[edit]

If interested, please share your opinion on the Rfc on Character Names in plot summaries. Jauerbackdude?/dude.

The Sleeper (Plot)[edit]

Could someone tell me in just what way is the abridgment of the plot at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleepers inadequate. A vert has again been made by TheOldJacobit on the basis that the word count was under the extreme 700 WP plot word advisory therefore there was no need to improve it. Thank you.2605:E000:1301:4462:8C64:A6E3:E51C:CFEC (talk) 15:03, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

He is right and you are wrong. The plot was 631 words, and it was suitable. Your version trimmed it down unnecessarily and included poor grammar. Binksternet (talk) 15:44, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

50% Rotten Tomatoes[edit]

Hi, do we bother summarizing a 50% RT rating? Since they have a pass-fail system, would we note that this film's response is generally poor, or would we attempt to infer meaning by describing the response as mixed? Seems like WP:OR-potential here if we start applying labels to certain percentages. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:20, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

As you noted, it's original research to interpret the percentage or any meaning not explicitly stated at RT. At least, that's my take on it. DonIago (talk) 15:30, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
RT only assesses reviews as positive or negative (with no in-between), so I would probably make that more clear in reporting its score. I would not extract any prose-based conclusion like "mixed" or "negative" based on the score alone. The critics consensus should be cited when available. I would look to secondary sources that draw a conclusion about the film's overall critical reception. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:51, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
50/50 is about as mixed as it can get on the face of it, but the RT summary clearly states it has not formulated a consensus as yet. This is because statistically speaking you cannot draw any meaningful conclusions about a film's reception based on just eight reviews, so we would be misrepresenting Rotten Tomatoes to present its findings as "mixed". Betty Logan (talk) 16:40, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
We've been down this path many times. RT doesn't distinguish between a poor review and a mixed review. The Tomatometer score, which only represents the percentage of positive reviews, isn't good enough on its own to represent a "mixed" or "poor" summary statement in most situations, IMO. Only when there is a low Metacritic score to complement it, should a summary statement be considered. If it proves to be contentious within a given article, it's best to avoid one altogether or rely on other secondary sources as Erik mentioned. --GoneIn60 (talk) 05:22, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
"Mixed" isn't a good term full stop. It can indicate a significant number of good and poor reviews (i.e. split opinion), or it can indicate a lukewarm reception where the bulk of reviews are clustered around average ratings. The term itself doesn't really indicate the spread of critical opinion. Betty Logan (talk) 12:12, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
I agree that "mixed" is a broad term, but it is one that sources use quite often. I don't think we'd have any luck with the suggestion it shouldn't be used. --GoneIn60 (talk) 14:46, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Any Italian film fans? I've given The Stolen Children an overhaul[edit]

It's a very affecting and important early 90s Italian movie which I thought deserved a good write-up, but I may have put a bit too much detail into the plot. Films isn't my regular editing area so if any regulars who know this movie want to go over the article, maybe help bring it up to GA status, I'd appreciate it. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 07:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Pokémon film companies[edit]

There is a discussion regarding how we should list the Pokémon film companies in the infobox. It can be found at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Pokémon film companies. Input from project members would be appreciated. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:56, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

RfC on anime film articles[edit]

If anyone is interested, there is an RfC on whether to list only the main production companies or animation studios in the infobox of anime film articles. Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga#Request for Comment: Is it relevant to list all production companies or just main animation studios in the infobox of film articles?. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:40, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Star Wars split discussion[edit]

There is a discussion at Talk:Star Wars#Splitting to Star Wars (film series) about splitting coverage of the film series at Star Wars to a different article. The discussion is also generally covering how best to perform cleanup at the article, including how to handle tables and the length of the page. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 20:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Godzilla: King of the Monsters article naming[edit]

I have a pinch of confusion in regards to these three film's naming. I believe the "Godzilla: King of the Monsters in 3D" version is perfect as is, but I find it bizarre that a comma and an exclamation mark is enough to distinguish the 1956 film without any need for a title disambiguation. However, the differing punctuation with just a colon for the 2019 film does not earn the same separation. To me, this punctuation difference with the presence of hatnotes should be sufficient, but if not, both films should be disambiguated by year. Thoughts everyone? Sock (tock talk) 02:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

If the punctuation difference is enough disambiguation for one then it should be enough for both as well. If that plus hatnotes is not enough for some people and we are going to use the years to disambiguate, we should be consistent and give years to both. - adamstom97 (talk) 03:26, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
I didn't even notice the comma the first 3 times I searched for it. I've never found the small distinction a suitable guideline to follow. Yes, they are different titles which allow the Wikipedia title system to work, but for almost all readers there is no difference. I also don't believe that an average reader knows the correct punctuation of a title to be able to differentiate between the two. --Gonnym (talk) 05:45, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Roman Spinner[edit]

Roman Spinner has doing some lazy experiments on the cast section in film article again. This time, in Home Alone as seen with this diff. I cleaned up again as usual. He's been doing some unnecessary experiments on cast sections like he did with the In the Heat of the Night and is clearly not getting it. To tell you the truth, I'm really getting sick and tired of cleaning us this user's messes on the cast sections in film articles. BattleshipMan (talk) 04:33, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Since BattleshipMan also posted a similar complaint on my talk page, I replied there.    Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 05:43, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
Using square brackets is a common practice for differentiating between the formal credit and a helpful description. Even the American Film Institute do this: https://catalog.afi.com/Catalog/moviedetails/58544. Betty Logan (talk) 15:09, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't find the brackets necessary at all, but it appears that these are no longer used at Home Alone? Wikipedia is not bound to present details in an "official" capacity since it is supposed to be based on secondary sources. As for removing the character descriptions, it really is not necessary to remove especially since not every role will be named in the plot summary. WP:FILMCAST supports concise descriptions. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 15:20, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
@Erik: The reason I cleaned up that was because Roman put brackets after the character's given name and placed them before McCallister, as for example: Kevin [McCallister, as you see it in that diff above. That's why I did that. It has nothing to do with character descriptions. BattleshipMan (talk) 03:34, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I'm saying that here Roman does not restore the brackets, so is a moot point? And I was assuming since you removed the brackets and kept the concise descriptions that you were favoring that approach. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 11:19, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I am in favor of concise character descriptions because they help provide better understanding of the characters seen in those movies for readers. BattleshipMan (talk) 18:12, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Just so there's another voice, and because I like to hear myself speak, I find the brackets to be obnoxious, even if AFI might do this. (No disrespect intended to Roman Spinner.) There is nothing wrong with writing in complete sentences, and regular prose shouldn't be "fixed" like this. Parentheticals are overused across the project and these are just square parentheses Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:51, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
There has always been a temptation for fans of Home Alone to write extensive character descriptions under "Cast", such as this one from January 2016. However, by August 2017, such decriptions settled into an approximation of their on-screen credits form. Twelve days ago, on September 16, an IP editor expanded the character descriptions and, instead of reverting, I attempted to accomodate the expansion by bracketing the text which does not appear in the on-screen credits. In the cast list's current form, it is absolutely unnecessary to continue repeating "McCallister" for each family member, or to be redundant by describing Harry and, immediately thereafter, Marv as ", a thief who targets the McCallister's home", or to add, after Marley, ", Kevin's neighbor" or, after Gus Polinski, ", Kate's friend and helper". None of those descriptions appear in the on-screen cast list and are already covered under "Plot". Only the character name "Officer Balzak" has so far remained in the exact form that it appears on-screen.    Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 19:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

The character list in that article is entirely too long. The very fact that the character descriptions are necessary for the cousins, etc., is because those parts are interchangeable. None of them are of great importance in and of themselves, and I think they can all be removed. The plot says that the whole family is there, and could go into slightly more detail about how many family members are in the house. The main characters are the mother, father, Kevin, the two crooks, and the old man down the block. One or two others are of minor importance, but all the other family members are unnecessary. This is not IMDb. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 12:54, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm getting real tired of arguing with you, TOJ. We're not IMDb, but your views of them are outdated and they are necessary for readers who are familiar of any movie they haven't seen. Kevin and the others you mentioned are the main characters and we're not a lot more characters, but the family members on it who appeared in the majority of the film are just as important, even though they share minor importance. They appeared as much as some other family members in that movie and it's sequel. BattleshipMan (talk) 18:32, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
I concur that we don't really need to trim the list. Needing to have descriptions for characters that aren't specified in the plot summary is completely appropriate and does not qualify as grounds for exclusion from the cast list. We are not IMDb, and that means we don't throw the entire cast (or crew) into a Wikipedia article. There are many actors that are not included; the ones here are named roles. All except three are blue links as well. Both named roles and blue links are acceptable criteria under WP:FILMCAST #1. Essentially, it's not detrimental for Wikipedia to list these actors and roles. And we should not be extreme in claiming as such. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 19:16, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Exactly. That is why we need descriptions in cast list, specifically for the ones that aren't specified in the plot summary and it would be inappropriate to remove character descriptions and trim down cast section in film articles for those reasons. BattleshipMan (talk) 20:20, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
I agree with The Old Jacobite that the cast list is bloated with interpersonal relationships which belong in the "Plot" section, rather than under "Cast". As a remedy, I replaced under "Plot" the text "...his siblings and cousins. A fight with his older brother, Buzz, results..." with the more explanatory text "...his older siblings Buzz, Megan, Linnie and Jeff as well as his cousins Heather, Tracy, Rod, Sondra, Brook and Fuller. A fight with Buzz results...", thus making the cast list character descriptions unnecessary. We already know who Harry, Marv and Gus Polinski are because they are described in the plot, we know the family surmame and we now know all the family relationships. Here is a link to the on-screen cast crawl (the cast list starts at 1:17) which depicts everyone's name, including the confirmation that Kevin's youngest cousin is named "Brook", not "Brooke".    Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 01:01, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
In case you forgotten, how about removing the names of the entire cast of actors on that section that no readers will ever know if that happens? Not to mention the plot of it doesn't have Uncle Frank and Aunt Leslie, As the result of this, I reverted back to status quo. Also, It's actually "Brooke". The credits written on it is an error, common mistake. In the end credits of Home Alone 2: Lost in New York here at timeframe 2:23 is where you see the name "Brooke", not "Brook". You better think about that when you see it. BattleshipMan (talk) 02:54, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Since this part of the discussion primarily concerns improvements to Home Alone, rather than wider issues concerning films in general, I am posting my reply at Talk:Home Alone#Further suggestions for improvement of Home Alone cast list. Suffice it to say that, while an argument can be made for inclusion of character descriptions in Wikipedia's cast lists for films which lack an on-screen cast list with character names, such as in the case of To Kill a Mockingbird, character names should not be second-guessed for films which do contain on-screen lists with such names.    Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 04:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Jaws 2[edit]

Hello. I am in a disagreement with another - unregistered - user who reverts my edits to the plot summary of Jaws 2, which I was trying to make more concise and comprehensible. I would appreciate other opinions. Cheers. Mezigue (talk) 14:28, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Attempted a compromise between the two, as I felt they both had weaknesses. The IP (or another) made some further tweaks. If this doesn't bring it close enough to what you'd like to see, I would recommend starting a discussion at the article's Talk page. I've watchlisted the article. DonIago (talk) 19:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Who wrote the original story?[edit]

The article doesn't state that the teleplay was based on a story written by Rod Serling, which the credits do. More sources would help.Edwardssr (talk) 05:38, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Could you please let us know what article you are writing about. MarnetteD|Talk 06:06, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Five editors in search of a reliable source, prehaps? Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 19:46, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
User talk:Edwardssr, since you spotted the missing detail, please add the relevant content to the article in question.    Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 20:25, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

List of natural horror films[edit]

I would encourage editors with the time and inclination to do so to take a look at List of natural horror films. My primary concern is that there are many, many entries there with no sourcing to establish that they are genuinely considered to be natural horror films. Some of the entries don't even have bluelinks, but my own attempts to clean up the article resulted in an edit-warring situation. To be fair, that's still in progress (I think), but right now I feel obligated to steer clear, and may ultimately feel obligated to remove the article from my watchlist. DonIago (talk) 12:42, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

What is your concern, that the sources do not call it a "natural horror" but do call it horror with the article doing some small OR, or that they do not call it "horror" at all? --Gonnym (talk) 12:49, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Talk page discussion can be found here so we can centralize discussion (if you don't mind, Gonnym): Talk:List of natural horror films#Sources needed? Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 12:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Ah, quite right. Sorry for the oversight! DonIago (talk) 13:09, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Punctuation problem[edit]

Looking at some recent edits to Beverly Hills Cop III, I noticed that the punctuation in this edit was incoherent. I'm generally loathe to alter punctuation in a direct quote, though, and, looking at the source, I see that the screwy punctuation is in the original. Evidently, something is wrong on the page, resulting in the repeated semi-colons. So, should they be removed from the quote, as they are clearly extraneous? ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 17:04, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think the semi-colons should be considered part of the quote. It looks like something has gone screwy with the HTML markup. Betty Logan (talk) 18:37, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Per WP:SIC, we're allowed to fix typographical errors in direct quotations. It's conceivable that punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence ("Let's eat, Grandma!" vs "Let's eat Grandma!"), but just use common sense. It's a bigger problem when people copy-paste text into Wikipedia articles. Long quotations should generally be paraphrased. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:58, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
FWIW, I wouldn't interpret that as punctuation. That seems like embedded page formatting that got rendered as visible, perhaps when the site started using fancier HTML and CSS. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 01:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, all! I wasn't aware of WP:SIC, NinjaRobotPirate, so I appreciate that. The text clearly was copied-and-pasted from the site and really should be paraphrased, especially since it's repetitive. At any rate, thanks. ---The Old JacobiteThe '45 01:28, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Best Picture Academy Award nominated films at CfD[edit]

Please see the discussion here. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 09:27, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

IARA Awards?[edit]

Hi all, do any of you know anything about the IARA Awards? External link. I see this sneak into a lot of articles. It looks like it's been around for 4 years. Trying to figure out if it's notable. There's no article on it presently, although someone did try to create a Draft so they could puff up an article about Tamil actor Vijay (actor). Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:56, 2 October 2018 (UTC)