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WikiProject Trains (Rated NA-class)
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Category:Stations along the proposed New Haven-Hartford-Springfield Commuter Rail Line has been nominated for discussion[edit]

Category:Stations along the proposed New Haven-Hartford-Springfield Commuter Rail Line, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming to Category:Hartford Line stations. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you.

BR compartment coaches[edit]

Can anyone suggest a reliable source for why / when BR got rid of them? Many thanks in advance to all who can help! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 16:34, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Do you mean non-corridor or corridor? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:38, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
Non-corridor, I think Redrose64? —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 05:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The last non-corridor coaches would have been the 4-EPB's on the southern. The compartment coaches always had a red line at cantrail level to identify them. They were withdrawn after a murder in the late 1980's. Morphenniel (talk) 08:54, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Yeees...I've heard all that too, but you know what they say: "Exceptional claims require exceptional sources," which I why I asked for good sources. And I think that if an entire class of coaching stock was withdrawn on the strength of one event, that's a pretty extraordinary claim, which requires, etc :) Thanks though! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 09:09, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
There was a murder involving compartment stock. This led to the introduction of a red stripe on compartment stock (previously denoted buffet facilities in non-compartment stock, but these had been withdrawn by then) and pressure for the removal on compartment stock from service. Believe there had also been a number of sexual assaults reported which added to the pressure. Mjroots (talk) 10:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Unfortunately our personal suggestions will not fare me well at the RSN will it  :) surely this story—not the murder, but subsequent actions taken by BR—must be discussed somewhere? I mean, I'm sure you're right, but, WP:VNT and all that! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 10:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The relevant murder may be of Debbie Linsley. A semi-reliable source states that compartments were scrapped after her murder but doesn't explicitly state a causal relationship. Certes (talk) 11:15, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
You are, of course, right again: this sandbox. Perhaps I should've been a litle cleaer from the start...That's got a lot of info in it, thanks for pointing it out. But, The Sun :o Ritichie333 will go mad  :) I was hoping for something like that, but perhaps in a BR history or somthing. Cheers though! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 11:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
@Certes: sorry, previous ping failed. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 11:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
@Ritchie333: yet another broke ping! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 11:25, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
  • David Jenkinson's book History of British Railway Carriages should cover some of the early shift from corridors and compartments to saloons. The Southern Region commuter stock kept compartments for longer, as the numerous doors allowed for faster offloading, however these were replaced by automatic door stock, partly when disabled access began to become mandatory, and because the doors also closed automatically, making the turnaround faster. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
    Thanks for that Andy Dingley, I'll check it out; it sounds like it will have some useful background, especially as it's clear that the withdrawal began years before the murder. I still wish I could find an RS that actually linked the two though! Take care, —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 13:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
    Jenkinson is somewhere in the bookpiles in my study. I'll see if I can find it. It's a good book, and surprisingly interesting (good for the early railcars too). His per-railway carriage books do get a bit "hyper-focussed". Andy Dingley (talk) 13:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
    @Andy Dingley: If you could—I see it's not phenomenally over-priced [1], so may indulge. Cheers! —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 14:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
    Found it! Andy Dingley (talk) 16:35, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
    IIRC, Jenkinson mainly covers loco-hauled stock. The last loco-hauled non-corridor coaches were used on the suburban services from Kings Cross prior to electrification, and final withdrawals were in October 1977.
    For non-corridor EMUs, the red stripe above the windows was a comparatively late addition, and it did indeed come about as a consequence of passenger safety concerns - once they had been added, people travelling alone were cautioned to avoid the coaches with the red stripe. The stripe was much deeper than that used on buffet cars (which continued to have a red stripe for many more years, well into the privatisation era) but since the routes which retained compartment stock at this period (south London and the LT&S line out of Fenchurch Street) had long since lost all on-train refreshment facilities (if they ever had them at all), it wasn't seen as a potential source of confusion.
    More to follow. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:11, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
@Redrose64: That's really great, this is all gold dust, cheers! If can use this kind of thing, it's an even bigger WP:CCS than just being a re-opened murder case (sorry—that sounds callous, but you know, for the article). If you can *ahem* loose-shunt some sources my way, I can do the chasing up  :) (sorry if i sound like the stuck record by now!). Thanks again, everyone who's commmented, it's all useful. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 10:48, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I've had a quick look at The Times archives - 2 hits for "Debbie Linsley" and 5 for "Deborah Linsley". At least we have a firm date - 23 March 1988. Suggest that issues of Rail from that date onwards might prove a fruitful hunting ground. Mjroots (talk) 17:18, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Captain Cornwall may be able to help, having added the information to another article. Certes (talk) 18:03, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
There is mention of this incident, but no source, in British_Rail_Class_415. The same paragraph also relates the murder to a review of compartment stock by Network SouthEast. Morphenniel (talk) 20:14, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
I've heard it enough times to believe it, but unfortunately the editor who added that text hasn't contributed since 2006. Certes (talk) 21:21, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
This might be useable. Mjroots (talk) 21:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
[dead link] --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:36, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
The link works for me and is also archived. Again, it says Following the murder which sounds to me like journalese for "I want to imply causation but can't prove it". Certes (talk) 09:52, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
This link to the NSE Railway Society also has details on the murder and subsequent actions taken. Ultimately, I suspect the only viable source will be found in the NSE Book. Morphenniel (talk) 14:11, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
We're certainly getting places  :) {reply|Morphenniel}} Do you think, since Chris Green is the soc's Hon. President, that might be a RS? —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 14:37, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Re-pinging Morphenniel, previous one faulted. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 15:55, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Yes and no. Yes, because I think this is more than just a "fan" web page, and is a serious organization. Therefore, I think the information on this site is credible and reliable. No, because I think we can probably find a reference in the book "The NSE Story". My copy is somewhere in the basement ... so if I get time over the weekend, I'll try and fish it out. Morphenniel (talk) 20:52, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
@Morphenniel: cheers. Well; I popped into the library and had a look at TNSES, and couldn't see it mentioned anywhere—including the chronology section at the back. I guess it might've soiled the book's "feel-good" factor, as it does rather sing the praises Chris Green! :D Perhaps you'l notice somthing something I didn't, if you get the chance. —SerialNumber54129 paranoia /cheap sh*t room 14:18, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Las Vegas Monorail station articles[edit]

I opened a discussion here about whether there should be separate articles for each of the stations of the Las Vegas Monorail, that could use some input. Toohool (talk) 18:38, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

ATP claim[edit]

The lede of the Advanced Passenger Train article currently includes this statement:

with the British Rail Class 221, built by Bombardier Transportation. Its tilting system was originally licensed from the APT. Other features pioneered on APT, such as the hydrokinetic braking used to stop the train within existing separations, have not been adopted.

Bomber has its own active tilt system, originally developed for the LRC (train) starting in the 1960s and beginning hardware development in 1972, this system continues to be used on the Acela Express and a number of other designs.

So, does anyone know for sure what system the 221 uses? The ATP's system is currently owned by Fiat, and it seems unlikely that Bomber would license from Fiat when they have their own.

Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:49, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


A Request for Comment on the use of chains in articles on railway lines and railway stations has been opened at WT:UKT#Chains RFC. Mjroots (talk) 19:37, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement![edit]

Today's Article For Improvement star.svg

Please note that Cable transport, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by MusikBot talk 00:05, 9 July 2018 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

Use of start date and age template[edit]

I am having a disagreement with Avman89 about use of {{start date and age}} in the infoboxes of rapid transit line articles - see L Taraval for an example. It is used on a number of such articles, but use is inconsistent and I don't believe there is a broad consensus. I find the template utterly obnoxious except for ongoing events - it takes up space and clutters the infobox, while adding information that's not particularly relevant or useful. I also feel that it's confusing - the format of the template, where the 'x years ago' is separated by a semicolon, implies a list rather than a connection to a date. I feel that a line or station opened 87 years ago is vastly less important than that it opened in 1931 - if the age is important, it will be discussed in the text. Obviously there is disagreement with this - for example, Avman89 said The casual reader often is interested in how long a service has been in operation. Having to do the math every time to figure out the age (2018 - minus start year, then comparing months, is a lot of work). I would appreciate some other opinions and perhaps we can find a consensus to consistently apply. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 07:54, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

I agree that adding "x years ago" is needless. Other than with a person's age, this "How long today?" is not primary info (and it can be derived anyway). -DePiep (talk) 14:36, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

More categories for creation[edit]

Again, I draw the following to this project's attention - Category:2′C3′ locomotives‏‎, Category:(1Bo)+(Bo1) locomotives‏‎ and Category:(C1′)+(1′C) locomotives‏‎. Le Deluge (talk) 11:41, 16 July 2018 (UTC)